To play conspiracy theorist for a second, are you guys/gals even sure we got the real Chinese Democracy, and by that I mean a 100% finished product as opposed to a rough draft?
Not even taking into account the rough draft booklet, or the skip during Scraped, the mixing is all over the place on the album. Robin's solo on SoD for example jumps radically in the mix as does Bumblefoot's solo on Catcher', while Scraped and I.R.S. I find are mixed so low that I have to reach for the volume knob no matter how cranked I had the preceding tracks.
Guns N' Roses
Started by AxlsMainMan, Feb 22 2011 05:14 PM
2550 replies to this topic
#496
AxlsMainMan
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Posted 07 August 2011 - 04:06 PM
"Whereas scientists, philosophers and political theorists are saddled with these drably discursive pursuits, students of literature occupy the more prized territory of feeling and experience." - Terry Eagleton
#498
Mr. Roboto
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Posted 07 August 2011 - 05:55 PM
To play conspiracy theorist for a second, are you guys/gals even sure we got the real Chinese Democracy, and by that I mean a 100% finished product as opposed to a rough draft?
Not even taking into account the rough draft booklet, or the skip during Scraped, the mixing is all over the place on the album. Robin's solo on SoD for example jumps radically in the mix as does Bumblefoot's solo on Catcher', while Scraped and I.R.S. I find are mixed so low that I have to reach for the volume knob no matter how cranked I had the preceding tracks.
Don't know about all that, but I didn't miss the irony on the botched finished product after taking so long to make the damn thing.
I will also say that listening to the leaks ruined it for me in the end.
"It was like I was in high school again, but fatter."
#501
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Posted 15 August 2011 - 02:21 AM
You're just now figuring out the album was mixed by Helen Keller?To play conspiracy theorist for a second, are you guys/gals even sure we got the real Chinese Democracy, and by that I mean a 100% finished product as opposed to a rough draft?
Not even taking into account the rough draft booklet, or the skip during Scraped, the mixing is all over the place on the album. Robin's solo on SoD for example jumps radically in the mix as does Bumblefoot's solo on Catcher', while Scraped and I.R.S. I find are mixed so low that I have to reach for the volume knob no matter how cranked I had the preceding tracks.
Welcome to November 23, 2008.
In the slim to none chance the album was a rough draft, I don't give the tiniest of shits about a final draft. The quality of the songs got worse as the demos progressed. Let Axl or anybody touch those songs one more time and the album would have been unlistenable, even among the hardcore forum junkie demographic. The album was/is noise pollution which is why the songs were laughed off the airwaves. Better charted higher as a demo with a cease and desist letter attached to it than it did as a legitimate radio single. Why? Because it's a good song at its core and barring that horrid intro is quite catchy. The final version sounds like utter shit and I still get a chuckle thinking of those forum junkies saying the single was gonna set the world on fire.
Thriller and Vertigo would have tanked if given a Chinese Democracy mix.
Those warchild pics the ones from 2006?
Surprise, surprise, surprise!
#502
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Posted 15 August 2011 - 12:58 PM
"It was like I was in high school again, but fatter."
#503
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Posted 16 August 2011 - 10:04 AM
Interview with Gilby about Guns N' Roses, Axl, and Chinese Democracy. Read the whole interview here: http://gnr-afd.forum...st-10-2011#1707
Q: You played your first show with Guns N' Roses on December 5, 1991 (Worchester, MA). What can you remember from this gig?
yes, a lil... i was hungover. i met up with some friends the night before & had a yager party. it took the edge off.
Q: Guns N' Roses had been on a half-year break (last concert in August 1991). How were the rehearsals with the band leading up to your first gig? Did you feel welcomed by all the members in the band?
well there wasn't much rehearsal... the band knew the songs. so i had to learn them on my own & hope they would run through them with me. & yes, they all made me feel welcome & a part of the band.
Q: Are you saying that when you hit the stage for the first time you hadn't rehearsed the songs with the rest of the band?
oh yeah i did rehearse some, but not all the songs. the band wanted someone that could do the gig. they had already done a couple months of touring with Izzy & they weren't into rehearsing at that time.
Q: How was the reaction from the fans, both by having Izzy replaced and by your performances in 1991 and the rest of your tenure with the band?
the fans were great... at that time GNR was getting huge, so their were a lot of new fans & we grew together.
Q: It has been said that Izzy was functioning as a pacifier in the band, being the only one that could reach Axl Rose at times and calm him down. Did you have to do anything specific to keep on Axl's good side?
i don't know if that's true, but it was before i was in the band. i remained true to myself in & out of the band, axl treated me with respect while i was in the band. it was when we were off the road when things went wrong.
Q: The downtime between tours was always hard on GN'R. What happened after the touring?
that was the hard part cuz there was no direction. we started recording the spaghetti incident, but there was no tour. i started my solo record "pawnshop guitars" cuz i knew it was gonna be a long break.
Q: How do you think it was possible for Axl to get so much control of Guns N' Roses that he could call the shots, both by deciding the direction of the music and firing members?
i dont know, i wasn't in that meeting.
Q: What do you think of Slash's recent solo record? Has he still got it as a guitarist or has he stagnated as he's grown older?
i think he's been pretty consistent in all his records. i like the way he used different singers on his last, that was a nice change.
Q: He will only use Miles Kennedy on vocals for his next solo record which is due out in 2012. I would love to see you play with Slash on the next one, you guys share a lot when it comes to musical interests, you are both pure rock and rollers. Have you considered doing any collaborations together, either as part of your projects or his?
no actually i haven't thought about it, just cuz' i've moved on & i know he has also. but i do agree, we do play the same kinda music.
Q: Guns N' Roses during the Use Your Illusion tours was quite bloated and excessive. Did it ever feel like being part of some rock and roll parody rather than a real, serious touring band?
no, it was a serious touring band. it was axl's vision to have the back up singers & horns. on stage we were a great band that played loud & proud.
Q: Was it hard to cope with the drinking and drug use in the band?
no, when we wern't playing, we were partying. just like young fella's enjoying their youth should be doing. we had no responsibilities at that time. travel, gig & party.
Q: Guns N' Roses allegedly started falling apart years before you entered the band, and many consider it miraculous that it lasted so long at all with that much material released. With the tension between Slash and Axl steadily increasing, how was it to be attached to a ticking time bomb? Did you realize that it wouldn't last long before the band would implode?
i don't think the band started to fall apart until the tour was over & axl started to put the new plan in place. i thought the tour was very successful & obviously the illusion records sold well. but u can't have a dangerous band & not have the threat of implosion over your shoulder.
Q: Yeah, many insiders say it is amazing it lasted as long as it did. The strange thing is that it disintegrated slowly more than just blow apart, starting with Steven being fired, then Izzy leaving, then you, and so on until the almost anticlimatic moment when Slash and Duff silently walked out the door. There were no explosion when it all fell apart. And still it exists, although in a complete rewarped form. Do you have any comments on Axl both touring and releasing music under the name "Guns N' Roses"? Would it have been better for the legacy of GN'R it it had just exploded and completely died in 1994?
i said it before & i'll say it again... to me, what made GNR great, was the tension. the rythym of the guitars, axl's vocals, the groove of duff's bass & drums, & the songs. that relationship was magic... the new GNR is axl's band & it sounds like his vision. it's good, cuz he's talented, but it's not a band. GNR is a victim of what's happened to all of todays music: we'll never have another beatles, stones, GNR, metallica, etc.. cuz great bands need great people working together on a common vision. nowadays, it's always one persons vision & key pieces to accent that. if the beatles started today it would be 4 different bands, cuz they all can write. no one wants to collaborate, cuz people are selfish & want the glory to themselves & don't want to admit that they need anybody. it's just evolution, it's not american idol's fault.
Q: Did being in Guns N' Roses open up new opportunities for you?
yes & no, yes i was in a popular band & people wanted to be associated with it. no, that i was just a rhythm guitarist.
Q: Have you ever come to terms with the song 'Since I Don't Have You' which you didn't like at the time of its release?
of course... i'ts a good song. i just didn't think it fit with the original idea of songs that influenced the band. it didn't rock.
Q: Do you keep in touch with any of your former Guns N' Roses colleagues or Izzy?
some... i see duff & his family a lot. i see & talk to matt. & i jam with dizzy every now & then.
Q: Have you seen Guns N' Roses live since you left the band and if so, what did you think?
no, i'm not making a statement, just haven't seen them.
Q: Were you surprised when Chinese Democracy saw the light of day and would you have liked to been part of it?
no, i knew it would come out eventually... & no, i think it's better i stayed out of it.
Q: If you were to offer any advise to Axl, what would that be?
not like he'd take my advice, but start over & call the band axl "fucking" rose & move on like everybody else did...
Q: I am hoping for GN'R's to still release their equivalent of Fleetwood Mac's "Rumours", you know, a new record with a new band incarnation playing new style of music (compared to their blues music with Peter Green, which was also great) which will be so great that people will stop comparing everything they do to the Appetite and Illusion era. Do you see it happen? Is Axl such a musical genius that he will be able to create an epic album that put all criticism to rest?
yes, but he would need to let his bandmates contribute & trust them.
Q: Some fans keep dreaming about a reunion with the classic lineup, perhaps with Matt if Steven is too unstable/alienated. Do you ever see that happen and would you accept if you were asked to join?
maybe, it's a great idea & while everybody's alive & can still play. yes, they should & i would if they asked.
Q: The 1992/1993 lineup of Guns N' Roses with you is considered one of the best the band ever had by many fans. Two brilliant guitarists and a competent drummer. Are you bitter that you never got to record another album with the band and leave an even stronger mark on the band's history?
i'm not bitter, but i thought we could still make some great music together. it's rare that 5 guys have the same musical vision & the chops to back it up.
Q: But that shared musical vision ended after the tour?
apparently while the tour was happening, i just didn't know it.
Q: You've said earlier that you, Slash and Matt were writing songs for a new record in 1994 but that Axl and Duff rejected them and wanted to take the band in another direction. Can you tell me what music you guys were working on? Was it the songs that would later end up on Slash' albums or were this songs that have never been released?
yes, it was what ended up being the snakepit record. not all the songs, but some. i thought the were good ideas that axl & duff could really help develop.
Q: Did they reject them because they wanted to create a different style of music or because they felt they just weren't good enough to be on a GN'R record?
i don't know, but assume not good enough. axl never personally said anything to me. slash told me axl, didn't like em.
Q: What musical direction exactly were Axl and Duff heading in?
i don't know, chinese democracy ?
Q: You played your first show with Guns N' Roses on December 5, 1991 (Worchester, MA). What can you remember from this gig?
yes, a lil... i was hungover. i met up with some friends the night before & had a yager party. it took the edge off.
Q: Guns N' Roses had been on a half-year break (last concert in August 1991). How were the rehearsals with the band leading up to your first gig? Did you feel welcomed by all the members in the band?
well there wasn't much rehearsal... the band knew the songs. so i had to learn them on my own & hope they would run through them with me. & yes, they all made me feel welcome & a part of the band.
Q: Are you saying that when you hit the stage for the first time you hadn't rehearsed the songs with the rest of the band?
oh yeah i did rehearse some, but not all the songs. the band wanted someone that could do the gig. they had already done a couple months of touring with Izzy & they weren't into rehearsing at that time.
Q: How was the reaction from the fans, both by having Izzy replaced and by your performances in 1991 and the rest of your tenure with the band?
the fans were great... at that time GNR was getting huge, so their were a lot of new fans & we grew together.
Q: It has been said that Izzy was functioning as a pacifier in the band, being the only one that could reach Axl Rose at times and calm him down. Did you have to do anything specific to keep on Axl's good side?
i don't know if that's true, but it was before i was in the band. i remained true to myself in & out of the band, axl treated me with respect while i was in the band. it was when we were off the road when things went wrong.
Q: The downtime between tours was always hard on GN'R. What happened after the touring?
that was the hard part cuz there was no direction. we started recording the spaghetti incident, but there was no tour. i started my solo record "pawnshop guitars" cuz i knew it was gonna be a long break.
Q: How do you think it was possible for Axl to get so much control of Guns N' Roses that he could call the shots, both by deciding the direction of the music and firing members?
i dont know, i wasn't in that meeting.
Q: What do you think of Slash's recent solo record? Has he still got it as a guitarist or has he stagnated as he's grown older?
i think he's been pretty consistent in all his records. i like the way he used different singers on his last, that was a nice change.
Q: He will only use Miles Kennedy on vocals for his next solo record which is due out in 2012. I would love to see you play with Slash on the next one, you guys share a lot when it comes to musical interests, you are both pure rock and rollers. Have you considered doing any collaborations together, either as part of your projects or his?
no actually i haven't thought about it, just cuz' i've moved on & i know he has also. but i do agree, we do play the same kinda music.
Q: Guns N' Roses during the Use Your Illusion tours was quite bloated and excessive. Did it ever feel like being part of some rock and roll parody rather than a real, serious touring band?
no, it was a serious touring band. it was axl's vision to have the back up singers & horns. on stage we were a great band that played loud & proud.
Q: Was it hard to cope with the drinking and drug use in the band?
no, when we wern't playing, we were partying. just like young fella's enjoying their youth should be doing. we had no responsibilities at that time. travel, gig & party.
Q: Guns N' Roses allegedly started falling apart years before you entered the band, and many consider it miraculous that it lasted so long at all with that much material released. With the tension between Slash and Axl steadily increasing, how was it to be attached to a ticking time bomb? Did you realize that it wouldn't last long before the band would implode?
i don't think the band started to fall apart until the tour was over & axl started to put the new plan in place. i thought the tour was very successful & obviously the illusion records sold well. but u can't have a dangerous band & not have the threat of implosion over your shoulder.
Q: Yeah, many insiders say it is amazing it lasted as long as it did. The strange thing is that it disintegrated slowly more than just blow apart, starting with Steven being fired, then Izzy leaving, then you, and so on until the almost anticlimatic moment when Slash and Duff silently walked out the door. There were no explosion when it all fell apart. And still it exists, although in a complete rewarped form. Do you have any comments on Axl both touring and releasing music under the name "Guns N' Roses"? Would it have been better for the legacy of GN'R it it had just exploded and completely died in 1994?
i said it before & i'll say it again... to me, what made GNR great, was the tension. the rythym of the guitars, axl's vocals, the groove of duff's bass & drums, & the songs. that relationship was magic... the new GNR is axl's band & it sounds like his vision. it's good, cuz he's talented, but it's not a band. GNR is a victim of what's happened to all of todays music: we'll never have another beatles, stones, GNR, metallica, etc.. cuz great bands need great people working together on a common vision. nowadays, it's always one persons vision & key pieces to accent that. if the beatles started today it would be 4 different bands, cuz they all can write. no one wants to collaborate, cuz people are selfish & want the glory to themselves & don't want to admit that they need anybody. it's just evolution, it's not american idol's fault.
Q: Did being in Guns N' Roses open up new opportunities for you?
yes & no, yes i was in a popular band & people wanted to be associated with it. no, that i was just a rhythm guitarist.
Q: Have you ever come to terms with the song 'Since I Don't Have You' which you didn't like at the time of its release?
of course... i'ts a good song. i just didn't think it fit with the original idea of songs that influenced the band. it didn't rock.
Q: Do you keep in touch with any of your former Guns N' Roses colleagues or Izzy?
some... i see duff & his family a lot. i see & talk to matt. & i jam with dizzy every now & then.
Q: Have you seen Guns N' Roses live since you left the band and if so, what did you think?
no, i'm not making a statement, just haven't seen them.
Q: Were you surprised when Chinese Democracy saw the light of day and would you have liked to been part of it?
no, i knew it would come out eventually... & no, i think it's better i stayed out of it.
Q: If you were to offer any advise to Axl, what would that be?
not like he'd take my advice, but start over & call the band axl "fucking" rose & move on like everybody else did...
Q: I am hoping for GN'R's to still release their equivalent of Fleetwood Mac's "Rumours", you know, a new record with a new band incarnation playing new style of music (compared to their blues music with Peter Green, which was also great) which will be so great that people will stop comparing everything they do to the Appetite and Illusion era. Do you see it happen? Is Axl such a musical genius that he will be able to create an epic album that put all criticism to rest?
yes, but he would need to let his bandmates contribute & trust them.
Q: Some fans keep dreaming about a reunion with the classic lineup, perhaps with Matt if Steven is too unstable/alienated. Do you ever see that happen and would you accept if you were asked to join?
maybe, it's a great idea & while everybody's alive & can still play. yes, they should & i would if they asked.
Q: The 1992/1993 lineup of Guns N' Roses with you is considered one of the best the band ever had by many fans. Two brilliant guitarists and a competent drummer. Are you bitter that you never got to record another album with the band and leave an even stronger mark on the band's history?
i'm not bitter, but i thought we could still make some great music together. it's rare that 5 guys have the same musical vision & the chops to back it up.
Q: But that shared musical vision ended after the tour?
apparently while the tour was happening, i just didn't know it.
Q: You've said earlier that you, Slash and Matt were writing songs for a new record in 1994 but that Axl and Duff rejected them and wanted to take the band in another direction. Can you tell me what music you guys were working on? Was it the songs that would later end up on Slash' albums or were this songs that have never been released?
yes, it was what ended up being the snakepit record. not all the songs, but some. i thought the were good ideas that axl & duff could really help develop.
Q: Did they reject them because they wanted to create a different style of music or because they felt they just weren't good enough to be on a GN'R record?
i don't know, but assume not good enough. axl never personally said anything to me. slash told me axl, didn't like em.
Q: What musical direction exactly were Axl and Duff heading in?
i don't know, chinese democracy ?
"Whereas scientists, philosophers and political theorists are saddled with these drably discursive pursuits, students of literature occupy the more prized territory of feeling and experience." - Terry Eagleton
#504
AxlsMainMan
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Posted 16 August 2011 - 12:29 PM
Poverty and wars will rage on until this cover finds its way on to an album:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsK9gCg32Qw[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsK9gCg32Qw[/url]
"Whereas scientists, philosophers and political theorists are saddled with these drably discursive pursuits, students of literature occupy the more prized territory of feeling and experience." - Terry Eagleton
#506
Gomer Pyle
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Posted 16 August 2011 - 04:53 PM
First time I saw those specific pics. Don't know where the other pics originated. Was always funny how she loved putting other people down for their looks yet wouldn't post her own pics herself. Not even saying she's ugly but definitely in no position to insult others.
Surprise, surprise, surprise!
#508
*D*
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Posted 16 August 2011 - 07:02 PM
Just thinking of how terrible a first single CD was.
For it to not hit number 1 is truly an indictment on how bad it was.
Most bands hit number 1 on the rock chart with their first single.. Hell Chili Peppers first single hit number 1 in 2 weeks and it isn't even that good.
Sixx AM hit number 1.... but GNR couldn't?
Think u can draft the ultimate band? Sign up and compete against fellow Syndicate members:http://www.thegnrsyn...id=41300#p41300
#509
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Posted 16 August 2011 - 07:29 PM
I haven't heard Chinese Democracy in many months. I like the title track. I think it can stand with anything on the Illusions CDs. The rest of it not so much. I am having a hard time even remembering any of the other songs. The whole thing is sad really. All the years spent, all the various musicians and producers, really big names all around, and not much to show for it.
Why do you read that kind of crap, Art? Seriously, I don't get it.
#510
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Posted 16 August 2011 - 10:41 PM
Nothing wrong with the title track being the first single. Whole fucking planet knew about Chinese Democracy and unleashing the title track to usher in the "new" era was a good idea. However, the intro was way too long to the point of any casual fans changing the channel before the guitars and the Axl scream kicked in, and the horrible mix did it no favors even for people wanting to hear it. Ron's guitar is just too high in the mix and drowns out the rest of the song. It drowns out the bass and that cool shit Pitman was doing in the song before Ron got his hands on it.Just thinking of how terrible a first single CD was.
For it to not hit number 1 is truly an indictment on how bad it was.
Most bands hit number 1 on the rock chart with their first single.. Hell Chili Peppers first single hit number 1 in 2 weeks and it isn't even that good.
Sixx AM hit number 1.... but GNR couldn't?
It never had a chance to do any damage on the radio.
Surprise, surprise, surprise!
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