843 replies to this topic

[TAP]

So given the armed officer who hid instead of helping to defend the school, I think we can say the notion of armed guards or (seriously, lol) armed teachers, as the solution to school shootings, has been resoundingly defeated in the court of common sense.

 

Sadly common sense has fled the building, and we will now hear from President BoneSpurs how this guy was a coward and every other officer would be super brave......BTW, is it actually police protocol to run towards gunfire? It doesn't seem to be how SWAT teams operate for example.

[freedom78]

BTW, is it actually police protocol to run towards gunfire? It doesn't seem to be how SWAT teams operate for example.

 

Fair point...so if police would typically either hide (like this guy) or at least wait for backup, then we can probably assume that a lesser trained armed guard would do even worse, in most instances.  Let's not pretend that guards in schools will in any way morph into Commando-esque characters and take on all the bad guys.  

 

Let's also note that an armed officer at the school did not in any way deter the attack.   

[TAP]

Fair point...so if police would typically either hide (like this guy) or at least wait for backup, then we can probably assume that a lesser trained armed guard would do even worse, in most instances.  Let's not pretend that guards in schools will in any way morph into Commando-esque characters and take on all the bad guys.  

 

Let's also note that an armed officer at the school did not in any way deter the attack.   

 

Yeah, people in support of more guns in schools (especially guns for teachers) are clearly visualizing themselves...or vicariously....as the hero of their own action movie. And anyone mentioning that 999 ways this is more likely to end in tragedy are communist coastal elites who hate children apparently.

[freedom78]

Yeah, people in support of more guns in schools (especially guns for teachers) are clearly visualizing themselves...or vicariously....as the hero of their own action movie. And anyone mentioning that 999 ways this is more likely to end in tragedy are communist coastal elites who hate children apparently.

 

The right perpetually suffers from the delusion that they're all the good guys in a Western movie, riding in to shoot all the bad guys and save the town that can't protect itself.  Just look at Clint Eastwood.  Dude's totally bought into his own legend, even though it's all fiction.  Is there better anecdotal evidence for this than their love of Ayn Rand?  I've seen right wingers make arguments and mention her works as if they're evidence.  Umm, it's fucking made up.  She got to choose the ending. 

[TAP]

The right perpetually suffers from the delusion that they're all the good guys in a Western movie, riding in to shoot all the bad guys and save the town that can't protect itself.  Just look at Clint Eastwood.  Dude's totally bought into his own legend, even though it's all fiction.  Is there better anecdotal evidence for this than their love of Ayn Rand?  I've seen right wingers make arguments and mention her works as if they're evidence.  Umm, it's fucking made up.  She got to choose the ending. 

 

This will make me sound full libtard....but hear me out.....good guy/bad guy isn't a fixed rigid, never changing, context free attribute of human beings. Otherwise why not label ourselves with colored triangles or something so everyone knows?

[freedom78]

Moral relativism?  This is a common critique of the left, from the right.  I am neither full on moral relativist, nor strictly moral absolutist.  I think moral and cultural relativism have an important place, especially in social science and some humanities, as studying other cultures and practices from a position of judgment is biased science.  But even if an act can be considered absolutely good or bad, no person is made up of strictly one moral degree of action.  We all do good and bad and while all actions have consequences, we act often in ignorance, which complicates the question considerably.  Unfortunately, I cannot stand to read philosophy --- it's so god awfully written --- or I'd have more to say.  Alas.

[TAP]

Moral relativism?  This is a common critique of the left, from the right.  I am neither full on moral relativist, nor strictly moral absolutist.  I think moral and cultural relativism have an important place, especially in social science and some humanities, as studying other cultures and practices from a position of judgment is biased science.  But even if an act can be considered absolutely good or bad, no person is made up of strictly one moral degree of action.  We all do good and bad and while all actions have consequences, we act often in ignorance, which complicates the question considerably.  Unfortunately, I cannot stand to read philosophy --- it's so god awfully written --- or I'd have more to say.  Alas.

 

You sound like a terrorist.

[AxlsMainMan]

 

Basically the Trump/Fox News solution

[freedom78]

 

Basically the Trump/Fox News solution

 

Probably better than the Trump/Fox solution.  Arnie don't run and hide. 

[freedom78]

What I Saw Treating the Victims From Parkland Should Change the Debate on Guns

Heather Sher, Feb 22, 2018

 

As I opened the CT scan last week to read the next case, I was baffled. The history simply read “gunshot wound.” I have been a radiologist in one of the busiest trauma centers in the United States for 13 years, and have diagnosed thousands of handgun injuries to the brain, lung, liver, spleen, bowel, and other vital organs. I thought that I knew all that I needed to know about gunshot wounds, but the specific pattern of injury on my computer screen was one that I had seen only once before.

 

In a typical handgun injury, which I diagnose almost daily, a bullet leaves a laceration through an organ such as the liver. To a radiologist, it appears as a linear, thin, gray bullet track through the organ. There may be bleeding and some bullet fragments.

 

I was looking at a CT scan of one of the mass-shooting victims from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, who had been brought to the trauma center during my call shift. The organ looked like an overripe melon smashed by a sledgehammer, and was bleeding extensively. How could a gunshot wound have caused this much damage?

 

The reaction in the emergency room was the same. One of the trauma surgeons opened a young victim in the operating room, and found only shreds of the organ that had been hit by a bullet from an AR-15, a semiautomatic rifle that delivers a devastatingly lethal, high-velocity bullet to the victim. Nothing was left to repair—and utterly, devastatingly, nothing could be done to fix the problem. The injury was fatal.

 

Continued: https://www.theatlan...on-guns/553937/

[freedom78]

My aneurysm happened at 0:48.

 

[Mr. Roboto]

As a doctor, I feel I have a duty to inform the public of what I have learned as I have observed these wounds and cared for these patients. 

 

 

 

Right and that's exactly why the NRA (who are now saying they aren't a lobbying group) wanted to stop doctors from talking about the dangers of guns with their patients. 

[Mr. Roboto]

My aneurysm happened at 0:48.

 

 

Yea, Mr. Tough Guy Bone Spurs would have run in there like John McClain. 

 

So much for the "Good guy with a gun" theory. If anybody, the well trained good guy with a gun know's he no match for an AR 15. 

 

And that makes me think about arming teachers. Are they also to have AR 15s? Surely if we gave all our teachers hand guns that would work against AR 15s right? We also must keep in mind that the element of surprise is probably what enables these nuts to murder many people immediately and that accuracy drops considerably for the "good guys with guns", highly trained or not. 

[freedom78]

A little off topic, but do you think after a genocide that human rights advocates get accused of exploiting genocide to push their radical anti-genocide agendas? 

[Mr. Roboto]

Sounds ridiculous that way huh?