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#1 Mr. Roboto

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 01:08 AM

I for one, think Obama will get the ball rolling only to be destroyed years down the road. I am not optimistic for health care in this country at all.
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Posted 01 April 2009 - 01:29 AM

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#3 Mr. Roboto

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 01:37 AM

Opposed to national health care of national health insurance? It sure seems like the two have been purposely mucked up in order to confuse people.
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Posted 01 April 2009 - 01:57 AM

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#5 LISA

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 07:09 AM

To me that is a good thing then. I oppose universal health care because it's not a right. And to treat it as such should require a vote from the people making it so. There are so many things that would have to happen in accordance with universal to make it cost effective. Namely punishing those who don't work out and removing unhealthy substances from society.

Health care would be cheaper if we removed government restrictions and allowed insurance companies to compete on a national level. We're allready at record spending and now want to add the biggest social program ever to our budget. Before anything is enacted, they should detail in the law how this will be paid for and explain to joe and jane how much their taxes are going to increase so that an employee at McDonalds can get the same benefits as they have. This delusion that the rich will cover all the exspense and that our gas/income/whatever taxes won't go up is a myth. Make the average Joe incur the cost and we'll see how many Americans want universal care.

What is so disturbing is if you look at the chart on the rapid increase in medical cost, it goes along with government intervention and regulation. That's just not a coincidence.


WHAT?? seriously..WHAT? you Oppose it because it is WRONG? or because you think your country is so fucked up that it would be impossible to bring about free and unbiased health care for everyone person?
Sorry, I think you're nuts. It may be an impossible thing to do at this point for the U.S but certainly something should be in place for poor and low to moderate income families? You can laugh at my ignorance but don't the poor and working poor deserve health care too? do they not deserve health care for thier children? As for unhealthy substances, do all addicts or alcoholics WANT to be what they are? do you lump them all together as undesirables who do not deserve help in quitting their addictions? do they not, because of their addictions, deserve to be treated for health concerns? Do you live under a rock? is your name really Fred Flintstone? I do understand how difficult it would be for the US to develope a program, I do understand that it would be billions and billions of dollars but don't you think that you, your family,friends all deserve the same level of health care as your basic human right as a citizen of your country? I do know that your country is like x3 of the population of Canada but something has to be done. I could never imagine not going to see the doctor because I couldn't afford it. It is unfathomable, impossible to me. If I was an American citizen, not only I but my brothers' family and my fathers estate would be gone.We would be bankrupt and living on the streets with the amount we would have had to pay to keep our mom alive for the last 7 weeks in hospital.I believe it is people like you Randal that stall/stop or otherwise make it impossible for your country to move ahead, to create something for the good of your nation. In fairness for all.
I know you will have nothing positive to say to me in response, so just don't. You will depict I am an uneducated and uniformed woman as you always do so just save it. I read your post, and I responded to the things I garnered from it. As far as I know, just because you serve(d) in the US military, you already have some form of insurance right? and as far as I know, you will always have it, even after your discharge for you and your family..so because you worked for the government , you deserve health care benefits/insurance ? and the people who have to work at Safeway bagging groceries do not deserve it? or the guy who got laid off from the bank not longer deserves his health coverage for he and his family? I so so so so do not understand your arrogant attitude.

#6 AxlsMainMan

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 09:40 AM

This will never happen in America. Pretty sad that the world's richest nation can't even look after its own people.
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#7 freedom78

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 09:44 AM

This will never happen in America.

Pretty sad that the world's richest nation can't even look after its own people.


It'll happen.

Consider the differences between now and in the early 90s. It was little more than liberal fantasy back then. Today is much more widely thought of as a positive.

Now, it may be a while until we have true universal, single payer healthcare, but something universal in coverage is probably not too far off, in my opinion. Of course, "not too far off" could mean anything. If Obama fails, it could very well be another 12-20 years, assuming some GOP rule in between.
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#8 AxlsMainMan

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 09:45 AM

Lobbyists have only gotten worse since the '90's though. They're primarily what killed it last time. If the GOP doesn't put the icing on the cake, people like Randall who can't be bothered to have a sense of compassion for those around him sure will.
"Whereas scientists, philosophers and political theorists are saddled with these drably discursive pursuits, students of literature occupy the more prized territory of feeling and experience." - Terry Eagleton

#9 cousin it

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 11:24 AM

I don't have the source, but their are studies that show expenditures for health would decrease with universal health care. People without health care go to the ER for treatment, and if they are broke, the state picks it up anyway. The problem is that they usually wait until the problem is acute, and much more difficult, and expensive, to treat.

#10 Macker

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 11:41 AM

To me that is a good thing then. I oppose universal health care because it's not a right. And to treat it as such should require a vote from the people making it so. There are so many things that would have to happen in accordance with universal to make it cost effective. Namely punishing those who don't work out and removing unhealthy substances from society.
What is so disturbing is if you look at the chart on the rapid increase in medical cost, it goes along with government intervention and regulation. That's just not a coincidence.


To be fair, he said it's not a right. Not that it was wrong, and I'm not sure if he is advocating punishing people with addictions or lead an unhealthy life style. It's just that's what may happen. If you don't take care of yourself, then you may be put at the end of a line or list for help.

I would support national health insurance only if it was completely voluntary and self sufficient meaning no monies from other areas were moved to it.


That is the biggest problem, it'll never happen because government always looks to take from somewhere that is doing well to essentially put a finger in the dike of a failing program...

Also as AxlsMainMan has said that lobbyists have only gotten worse since the 90's and he is exactly right. I don't believe it is a GOP or someone with insurance, is looking to kill it or doesn't hold a sense of compassion for someone who is down on their luck. The current entire Health care system and lobbyists are of many political or apolitical beliefs. It comes down to money and job security especially middle and upper management.

When Universal Health Care was put out there by Sec. Clinton back in the 90's, Health care providers went into panic and the rates jumped dramatically and services decreased. Why fear of not keeping their stock and pension plans going. It did fail but not only one specific party was against it. Many were against it. Why??? ...Money, stock, pensions, jobs, taxes..etc.. Not all govt. employees have coverage for themselves or their families for serving in the military (Myself has been cut off along with as of recent studies over 30,000 combat soldiers from Iraq and Afghanistan.) who after getting out were labeled with preexisting disorders..Especially the soldier who found Saddam Hussein. Out of 2 in that small trained specific oriented unit that have multiple commendations and no benefits, one until recently was said to have not been in combat and had been wounded to boot???? As a matter of fact, I basically don't exist anymore except at tax time.

I understand the idea of having a free market system and a universal system. I understand the ideology and pros and cons. I understand why people who pay for insurance have to wait hours in an ER behind people w/o insurance. I have been there myself and I don't care what anyone says, the people w/o insurance are not turned away. Does the health care system need re-adjustments and in areas complete overhauls? Of course! Where do you start? How deep does it go? Who goes where? It is a huge undertaking and just studies, planning and structuring alone would cost billions. Where will these funds come from? My taxes, health care rates have gone up so much since the 90's it would make your head spin. My dental plan is a waste, I have a cap on meds. and so on yet I have to pay whatever they say. Now they try to tell me what doctors to see? How is that fair? At 1 time I had 2 policies from the same provider and they wouldn't pay because they were arguing over who was primary and secondary. IT WAS THE SAME DAMN COMPANY! So if you add govt. monitoring and regulation, would things get better?

To have a universal health provider may at this point make more fiscal sense? Because you can take it or continue to hold your own? Yet if your a doctor and can choose to accept all providers or only be able to accept a Govt. provider, which way do you think the doctor will go? There is just so much involved to have a universal health care system in the U.S. that I don't think it can happen now or anytime soon. I think you would have to at least to get more support from the people who contribute the most taxes is redo the tax codes and IRS to a flat tax system and so on.

Lisa I understand your passion on the topic because your personal dealings and profession but I have also been there. My father passed away when I was young leaving my mother to raise 7 alone and I was 2nd oldest. My mother died broke a short 5 years after. So my family lived broke but did not qualify for assistance except for Social Security because the house was paid off.

It is exhausting to think about how deep an entire health care change would go how much would be involved and be fair for all. There is no easy answer, there is no easy conclusion, there is no quick fix, what about vacationers and illegals?? Trust funders to unemployed?? It is a messed up situation. Maybe an overhaul of the existing system would be more viable and less involved and expensive? IDK. It is more than likely going to be, here's what you get; take it and like it just like everything else. I have taken the approach of just trying to be mellow and doing as much as possible to enjoy myself and family and take things as they come. Be cool to others, continue to donate to the less fortunate and charities....
You never ask a navy man if he'll have another drink, because it's nobody's goddamned business how much he's had already.

#11 PERM BANNED

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 01:55 PM

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 02:12 PM

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#13 AxlsMainMan

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 02:29 PM

I don't see how the government can be restraining people by providing them with basic health care. If anything, they are enriching the well-being of their populace.
"Whereas scientists, philosophers and political theorists are saddled with these drably discursive pursuits, students of literature occupy the more prized territory of feeling and experience." - Terry Eagleton

#14 Macker

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 02:31 PM

Try to get a drivers license at the NY DMV.......They're there to help too...
You never ask a navy man if he'll have another drink, because it's nobody's goddamned business how much he's had already.

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 02:37 PM

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