31 replies to this topic

[Mr. Roboto]

Kan. abortion doc killed in church; suspect held WICHITA, Kan. – Dr. George Tiller, one of the nation's few providers of late-term abortions despite decades of protests and attacks, was shot and killed Sunday in a church where he was serving as an usher. The gunman fled, but a 51-year-old suspect was detained some 170 miles away in suburban Kansas City three hours after the shooting, Wichita Deputy Police Chief Tom Stolz said. Although Stolz refused to release the man's name, Johnson County sheriff's spokesman Tom Erickson identified the detained man as Scott Roeder. He has not been charged in the slaying and was expected to be taken to Wichita for questioning. Court records and Internet postings show that someone using the name Scott Roeder has a criminal past and has expressed anti-abortion opinions on sympathetic Web sites. Long a focus of national anti-abortion groups, including a summer-long protest in 1991, Tiller was shot in the foyer of Reformation Lutheran Church. Tiller's attorney, Dan Monnat, said Tiller's wife, Jeanne, was in the choir at the time. The slaying of the 67-year-old doctor is "an unspeakable tragedy," his widow, four children and 10 grandchildren said in statement. "This is particularly heart-wrenching because George was shot down in his house of worship, a place of peace." The family said its loss "is also a loss for the city of Wichita and women across America. George dedicated his life to providing women with high-quality health care despite frequent threats and violence." Stolz said all indications were that the gunman acted alone, although authorities were investigating whether he had any connection to anti-abortion groups. Tiller's Women's Health Care Services clinic is one of just three in the nation where abortions are performed after the 21st week of pregnancy. The clinic was heavily fortified and Tiller often traveled with a bodyguard, but Stolz said there was no indication of security at the church Sunday. Anti-abortion groups denounced the shooting and stressed that they support only nonviolent protest. The movement's leaders fear the killing could create a backlash just as they are scrutinizing U.S. Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayor, whose views on abortion rights are not publicly known. "We are shocked at this morning's disturbing news that Mr. Tiller was gunned down," Troy Newman, Operation Rescue's president, said in a statement. "Operation Rescue has worked for years through peaceful, legal means, and through the proper channels to see him brought to justice. We denounce vigilantism and the cowardly act that took place this morning." But Randall Terry, a veteran anti-abortion activist who founded Operation Rescue and whose protests have often targeted Tiller, called the slain doctor "a mass murderer," adding: "He was an evil man — his hands were covered with blood." At Tiller's church, Adam Watkins, 20, said he was sitting in the middle of the congregation when he heard a small pop at the start of the service. "We just thought a child had come in with a balloon and it had popped, had gone up and hit the ceiling and popped," Watkins said. Another usher came in and told the congregation to remain seated, then escorted Tiller's wife out. "When she got to the back doors, we heard her scream, and so we knew something bad had happened," Watkins said. President Barack Obama said he was "shocked and outraged" by the murder. "However profound our differences as Americans over difficult issues such as abortion, they cannot be resolved by heinous acts of violence," he said. Reformation Lutheran Church held a special service Sunday evening. Dr. Michael Bates, who has known Tiller for more than 25 years, described it as a simple service featuring Bible readings. Reporters were kept out. At a vigil in downtown Wichita that attracted a few hundred people, about 10 protesters from Topeka's Westboro Baptist Church held signs emblazoned with such messages as "Abortion is bloody murder" and "Baby killer in hell." The church is known for picketing military funerals. The protesters and about 20 Tiller supporters shouted at each other. A large number of police officers stood by to make sure the scene stayed under control. Tiller had in the past endured threats and violence. A protester shot Tiller in both arms in 1993, and his clinic was bombed in 1985. More recently, Monnat said Tiller had asked federal prosecutors to step up investigations of vandalism and other threats against the clinic out of fear that the incidents were increasing and that Tiller's safety was in jeopardy. Stolz, however, said police knew of no threats connected to the shooting. In early May, Tiller had asked the FBI to investigate vandalism at his clinic, including cut wires to surveillance cameras and damage to the roof that sent rainwater pouring into the building. In 1991, the Summer of Mercy protests organized by Operation Rescue drew thousands of anti-abortion activists to this city for demonstrations marked by civil disobedience and mass arrests. Tiller began providing abortion services in 1973. He acknowledged abortion was as socially divisive as slavery or prohibition but said the issue was about giving women a choice when dealing with technology that can diagnose severe fetal abnormalities before a baby is born. Nancy Keenan, president of abortion-rights group NARAL Pro-Choice America, issued a statement praising Tiller's commitment. "Dr. Tiller's murder will send a chill down the spines of the brave and courageous providers and other professionals who are part of reproductive-health centers that serve women across this country. We want them to know that they have our support as they move forward in providing these essential services in the aftermath of the shocking news from Wichita," Keenan said. The doctor's violent death was the latest in a string of shootings and bombings over two decades directed against abortion clinics, doctors and staff. The last killing of an abortion doctor was in October 1998 when Dr. Barnett Slepian was fatally shot in his home in a suburb of Buffalo, N.Y. A militant abortion opponent was convicted of the murder. Federal marshals protected Tiller during the 1991 Summer of Mercy protests, and he was protected again between 1994 and 1998 after another abortion provider was assassinated and federal authorities reported finding Tiller's name on an assassination list. Someone named Scott Roeder, then 38, was charged in Topeka, Kan., in 1996 with criminal use of explosives for having bomb components in his car trunk and sentenced to 24 months of probation. However, his conviction was overturned on appeal the next year after a higher court said evidence against Roeder was seized by law enforcement officers during an illegal search of his car. At the time, police said the FBI had identified Roeder as a member of the anti-government Freemen group, an organization that kept the FBI at bay in Jordan, Mont., for almost three months in 1995-96. Someone posting to the Web site of Operation Rescue in May 2007 used the name "Scott Roeder" in response to a scheduled vigil to "pray for an end to George R. Tiller's late-term abortion business." "Bleass everyone for attending and praying in May to bring justice to Tiller and the closing of his death camp," the posting read. "Sometime soon, would it be feasible to organize as many people as possible to attend Tillers church (inside, not just outside) to have much more of a presence and possibly ask questions of the Pastor, Deacons, Elders and members while there? Doesn't seem like it would hurt anything but bring more attention to Tiller."

[Rim Job]

so much for "pro-life" RIP

[Mr. Roboto]

Crazy fuckers. That's all I have right now.

[Mr. Roboto]

It's funny to read the defacto supporters of vigilantism and murder across the web. The only criminal here is the Christian who murdered a law abiding citizen while he attended church of all places. This world is upside down and fucked up, just unreal.

[Mr. Roboto]

Operation Rescue® » Pray in May to Stop Abortion, Wichita, KS, May 17-20, 2007

"#9 Scott Roeder Says:
May 19th, 2007 at 4:34 pm

Bleass everyone for attending and praying in May to bring justice to Tiller and the closing of his death camp.
Sometime soon, would it be feasible to organize as many people as possible to attend Tillers church (inside, not just outside) to have much more of a presence and possibly ask questions of the Pastor, Deacons, Elders and members while there? Doesn’t seem like it would hurt anything but bring more attention to Tiller."

[cousin it]

The christo-fascists are every bit as dangerous as the islamo-fascists... maybe more so since they already have a pretty strong bridge head in the country.

[Rim Job]

well now the repubs can't complain about warnings of right-wing domestic terrorism from homeland security.

[Mr. Roboto]

well now the repubs can't complain about warnings of right-wing domestic terrorism from homeland security.

Ha, nice catch.

[Mr. Roboto]

Operation Rescue® » Pray in May to Stop Abortion, Wichita, KS, May 17-20, 2007

"#9 Scott Roeder Says:
May 19th, 2007 at 4:34 pm

Bleass everyone for attending and praying in May to bring justice to Tiller and the closing of his death camp.
Sometime soon, would it be feasible to organize as many people as possible to attend Tillers church (inside, not just outside) to have much more of a presence and possibly ask questions of the Pastor, Deacons, Elders and members while there? Doesn’t seem like it would hurt anything but bring more attention to Tiller."

I was banned from their page after my comment....oooooopsie.

[Mr. Roboto]

Suspect in Kan. doctor's death to face charges WICHITA, Kan. – The suspect in the shooting death of Dr. George Tiller is expected to make his first court appearance in the slaying of one of the nation's few late-term abortion providers. Scott Roeder remained jailed Tuesday on suspicion of murder, accused of shooting Tiller to death Sunday at the doctor's church in Wichita. Sedgwick County District Attorney Nola Foulston said she anticipated Roeder would appear in court at 3 p.m. She said no information about charges would be available before that hearing. The Kansas City Star reported that Roeder's mental health and anti-government activities were factors in a custody battle in 2003 involving a girl in Pennsylvania. THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below. WICHITA, Kan. (AP) — Scott Roeder's family life began unraveling more than a decade ago when he got involved with anti-government groups, and then became "very religious in an Old Testament, eye-for-an-eye way," his former wife said. "The anti-tax stuff came first, and then it grew and grew. He became very anti-abortion," said Lindsey Roeder, who was married to Scott Roeder for 10 years but "strongly disagrees with his beliefs." He moved out in 1994, and the couple divorced in 1996. They have one son, now 22. "He started falling apart," Lindsey Roeder told The Associated Press on Monday. "I had to protect myself and my son." Scott Roeder, 51, remained jailed Tuesday on suspicion of murder, accused of shooting abortion provider George Tiller to death on Sunday as the doctor served as an usher at his Lutheran church in Wichita. It was not clear Monday if Roeder had a lawyer. Sedgwick County District Attorney Nola Foulston was reviewing evidence in expectation of filing charges Tuesday. Roeder's brother said he suffered from mental illness at various times in his life. "However, none of us ever saw Scott as a person capable of or willing to take another person's life. Our deepest regrets, prayers and sympathy go out to the Tiller family during this terrible time," his brother, David, said in a statement. Roeder's mental health and anti-government activities were also factors in a custody battle in Pennsylvania, The Kansas City Star reported Tuesday. Roeder sued in 2003 for the right to visit a girl he said was his daughter. The child was born in 2002. But the child's mother fought Roeder's request, saying he would not be a good influence because his association with "anti-government organizations is ongoing." A 2005 court ruling also said Roeder had been diagnosed with schizophrenia and did not take medication, "which may pose a clear and present danger to the minor child," according to The Star. Lindsey Roeder said from her home in a Kansas City suburb that the early years of the marriage were good and that Scott Roeder worked in an envelope factory. But she said he moved out of their home after he became involved with the Freemen movement, an anti-government group that discouraged the paying of taxes. He then became involved with a church based on the Old Testament, but she said she did not know much about its beliefs. She thought it was strange when he showed up Friday to take their son out to dinner and to see the movie "Star Trek." "That's his Sabbath," she said. "So we wouldn't usually see him on a Friday or Saturday. ... I think now, that he was saying goodbye." In 1996, Roeder was arrested in Topeka after being stopped by sheriff's deputies because his car lacked a valid license plate. Instead, it bore a tag declaring him a "sovereign" and immune from state law. In the trunk, deputies found materials that could be assembled into a bomb. He was convicted and sentenced to two years on probation and ordered to stop associating with violent anti-government groups. But the Kansas Court of Appeals overturned his conviction in 1997, ruling that authorities seized evidence against Roeder during an illegal search of his car. The appeals court ruling appeared to energize him, Lindsey Roeder said. "When they let him out because of the illegal search that made him even more self-righteous. He would say 'See, I'm right, and you're wrong,'" she said. He was known by sight and license plate number to workers a clinic in Kansas City, Kan., where he had put glue in backdoor locks, most recently on Saturday, the day before Tiller's death, a clinic worker said Monday night. Tiller's family announced Tuesday that there were no plans yet to reopen his Wichita clinic, despite earlier comments from Dr. LeRoy Carhart, one of four physicians who worked at the clinic. Carhart, 67, of Bellevue, Neb., had said Monday that the clinic would reopen next week. On Tuesday, he said he apparently misunderstood Tiller's wife, Jeanne Tiller, when she talked to the staff about the clinic's future on Monday. "I hope we can work this out with the Tiller family," Carhart said in a telephone interview from his Nebraska clinic. Some anti-abortion activists said they were familiar with Roeder. Regina Dinwiddie, a protester in the Kansas City area, said she had picketed a Planned Parenthood clinic with Roeder. She said she was "glad" about Tiller's death. "I wouldn't cry for him no more than I would if somebody dropped a rat and killed it," she said. Police said it appears the gunman acted alone, and some anti-abortion groups quickly distanced themselves from the killing. Outside Tiller's clinic, the Kansas Coalition for Life placed signs saying members had prayed for Tiller's change of heart, "not his murder." Dave Leach, publisher of the magazine Prayer and Action News, said he met Roeder about 15 years ago. A decade ago, Roeder subscribed to the quarterly magazine, which is published in Iowa and has said "justifiable homicide" against abortion providers can be supported, Leach said. "Scott is not my hero in that sense; he has not inspired me to shoot an abortionist," Leach said in an e-mail. "But definitely, he will be the hero to thousands of babies who will not be slain because Scott sacrificed everything for them." Some abortion clinics across the country responded to Tiller's death with increased security, while others said they would not discuss their security procedures. In West Palm Beach, Fla., Monica Reis, founder of the Presidential Women's Center, said clinic staff "will continue to do what we always do, which is to be vigilant, to be aware, to be conscious." Susan Hill, president of the National Women's Health Organization, which runs the only abortion clinic in Mississippi, said additional security measures have been taken at the Jackson clinic and officials have been in contact with the Justice Department. "We will have even more security tomorrow," she said. A funeral service for Tiller was planned for Saturday at College Hill United Methodist Church.

[Mr. Roboto]

Has anybody seen the clip of this guy talking to the video judge? He seems like he is asking about the grocery list...just totally whack.

[Bandita]

This issue is a mixed bag for me. While I certainly do NOT advocate what was done to this man, I also do not understand late term abortions except where there is 100 percent positive evidence that the fetus cannot live or will live in a seriously compromised way. There should be no other reason why you would wait over 20 weeks to decide you don't want to have the child. That to me is just plain stupidity. I know 2 instances where this happened. One was my ex-boyfriend's ex wife who ran off on him and got pregnant. She stayed in Florida saying she was with family and when she came back I think she was about 5 months along with another married man's child (Springer, anyone?). Her family came in and carted her off to one of these late term clinics and forced her to abort. The second one I know happened recently and there was good reason. A girl I am aquainted with found out her child would be afflicted with a disorder that was almost certain death before the 1st year. Guess which one went on like nothing happened and which one is devastated. This being said, the people (Christians????????) supporting what happened here? I think they are more likely headed to the supposed hell they believe in than the abortion doc. I always find it interesting how these people who find God or the Church later on in life find it because they are already unhinged in some way. How convenient.

[Mr. Roboto]

Crazies always seem to be attracted to religion. I'm certainly not saying all religious people are kooks, they most certainly are not. I don't like abortion, I certainly don't like late term abortion. But I watched one doctor give an interview last night and they listed some of the reasons why some may be necessary, and I understood a little more after that. It's not really something I keep tabs on, or pay that much attention to. I do believe that it should be legal and an option for women in a free country. I sure as shit don't think it's an option that women take lightly as many would suggest. These anti abortion groups are domestic terrorists in my eyes. They condemn the harassment and bullying of doctors, their families, patients, and co-workers on every level. Eventually, as seen here, they celebrate the murder once the deed is done. It's sick and twisted.

[Bandita]

I fully agree with you. Like I said in my 2 cases that I know of, that 2nd person was devastated beyond belief. Hell, I cried all day when she told me. I would assume most who have to make that kind of decision are as well. It's not up to some unhinged nutty and so called vigilante to decide and anyone supporting that guy should be ashamed of themself.

[cousin it]

"Late Term Abortions" is red herring thrown out by the anti-abortion crowd in an attempt to appeal to emotion. They are only performed if medically necessary, i.e., if the heath of the mother is in danger, or the fetus has a pathological condition.

From the law in Kansas:

65-6703. (a) No person shall perform or induce an abortion when the fetus is viable unless such person is a physician and has a documented referral from another physician not legally or financially affiliated with the physician performing or inducing the abortion and both physicians determine that: (1) The abortion is necessary to preserve the life of the pregnant woman; or (2) a continuation of the pregnancy will cause a substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant woman.

http://www.kslegisla...r=/65-6703.html



Dr. Tiller was heavily scrutinized, and he was never charged with a crime.