39 replies to this topic

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BERLIN (AFP) – Germany's attempt to create a multi-cultural society has failed completely, Chancellor Angela Merkel said at the weekend, calling on the country's immigrants to learn German and adopt Christian values.

Merkel weighed in for the first time in a blistering debate sparked by a central bank board member saying the country was being made "more stupid" by poorly educated and unproductive Muslim migrants.

"Multikulti", the concept that "we are now living side by side and are happy about it," does not work, Merkel told a meeting of younger members of her conservative Christian Democratic Union (CDU) party at Potsdam near Berlin.

"This approach has failed, totally," she said, adding that immigrants should integrate and adopt Germany's culture and values.

"We feel tied to Christian values. Those who don't accept them don't have a place here," said the chancellor.

"Subsidising immigrants" isn't sufficient, Germany has the right to "make demands" on them, she added, such as mastering the language of Goethe and abandoning practices such as forced marriages.

Merkel spoke a week after talks with Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan in which they pledged to do more to improve the often poor integration record of Germany's 2.5-million-strong Turkish community.

Turkish President Abdullah Gul, in a weekend interview, also urged the Turkish community living in Germany to master the language of their adopted country.

"When one doesn't speak the language of the country in which one lives that doesn't serve anyone, neither the person concerned, the country, nor the society," the Turkish president told the Suedeutsche Zeitung.

"That is why I tell them at every opportunity that they should learn German, and speak it fluently and without an accent. That should start at nurseries."

German President Christian Wulff was due for a five-day visit to Turkey and talks with the country's leaders on Monday.

The immigration debate has at times threatened to split Merkel's conservative party, and she made noises to both wings of the debate.

While saying that the government needed to encourage the training of Muslim clerics in Germany, Merkel said "Islam is part of Germany", echoeing the recent comments of Wulff, a liberal voice in the party.

Horst Seehofer, the leader of the CDU's Bavarian sister party, CSU, who represents the right-wing, recently said Germany did not "need more immigrants from different cultures like the Turks and Arabs" who are "more difficult" to integrate.

While warning against "immigration that weighs down on our social system", Merkel said Germany needed specialists from overseas to keep the pace of its economic development.

According to the head of the German chamber of commerce and industry, Hans Heinrich Driftmann, Germany is in urgent need of about 400,000 engineers and qualified workers, whose lack is knocking about one percent off the country's growth rate.

The integration of Muslims has been a hot button issue since August when a member of Germany's central bank sparked outrage by saying the country was being made "more stupid" by poorly educated and unproductive Muslim migrants with headscarves.

The banker, Thilo Sarrazin, has since resigned but his book on the subject -- "Germany Does Itself In" -- has flown off the shelves, and polls showed considerable sympathy for some of his views.
A recent study by the Friedrich Ebert Foundation think tank showed around one-third of Germans feel the country is being "over-run by foreigners" and the same percentage feel foreigners should be sent home when jobs are scarce.
Nearly 60 percent of the 2,411 people polled thought the around four million Muslims in Germany should have their religious practices "significantly curbed."
Far-right attitudes are found not only at the extremes of German society, but "to a worrying degree at the centre of society," the think tank said in its report.
"Hardly eight weeks have passed since publication of Sarrazin's theory of decline, and the longer the debate continues to a lower level it falls," the weekly Der Spiegel commented Sunday.



http://news.yahoo.co...migration/print

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Anyone who can't make the obvious comparison in America, needs to have their head examined. And before someone chimes in with the cliche "America is a nation of immigrants", it's a nation of European Immigrants. That's not to say skin color plays any factor in someone's ability to serve as a productive member of society, but when they cling to views and customs foriegn to traditional america, maybe they should stay at home.

[TAP]

it's a nation of European Immigrants.

...and African slaves.
I don't really disagree with her or you, though my favourite places to live have been London and New York where it works as well as anywhere. Least favourite place to live - the midwest, blandola on a stick as far as culture, tradition or anything much.

[PERM BANNED]

it's a nation of European Immigrants.

...and African slaves.
I don't really disagree with her or you, though my favourite places to live have been London and New York where it works as well as anywhere. Least favourite place to live - the midwest, blandola on a stick as far as culture, tradition or anything much.

While African slaves are certainly the exception to the rule, their demographics were minimal compared to ethnicities migrating to America up until immigration slowed in the early 1900s. Forcing someone against there will into a country is hardly the same as someone coming here of their own accord with no desire to adapt. Learning the language of the land and abandoning practices that are considered barbaric by the majority of the world is a good start. A country's economy and social policies are connected. You can't be a 1st world nation and embrace practices that the country you're entering abandoned hundreds of years ago.

[LISA]

Anyone who can't make the obvious comparison in America, needs to have their head examined. And before someone chimes in with the cliche "America is a nation of immigrants", it's a nation of European Immigrants. That's not to say skin color plays any factor in someone's ability to serve as a productive member of society, but when they cling to views and customs foriegn to traditional america, maybe they should stay at home.

WELCOME TO CANADA

ever been here? seriously spent time here? I live in a small town, I commute and hour to another small town which happens to be a University town....WLU, U of W, St Pauls, St Jeromes....student base is 75% asian, 20% indian and 5% white/caucasian....but the town itself if you want to do any research (Waterloo) Ontario is a total european melting pot.go figure...I have had the benefit(or misfortune) of living stateside for over 5 yrs but never have I lived in a place which embrace multiculturalism like Canada,more specifically southern Ontario...America could stand to learn a few lessons in acceptance and social program for the Immigrant of Status. Anyhoo..I blabber..just want to shout a bit.Perhaps at some point I may actually make sense

[LISA]

....btw..about midpoint I lost my train of thought...

[TAP]

BERLIN (AFP) – Germany's attempt to create a multi-cultural society has failed completely, Chancellor Angela Merkel said at the weekend, calling on the country's immigrants to learn German and adopt Christian values.

Christian values? Like when the vatican was in bed with the Nazis in WW2.

[LISA]

snicker snicker

[PERM BANNED]

BERLIN (AFP) – Germany's attempt to create a multi-cultural society has failed completely, Chancellor Angela Merkel said at the weekend, calling on the country's immigrants to learn German and adopt Christian values.

Christian values? Like when the vatican was in bed with the Nazis in WW2.

One could certainly argue that a distrust of Jews was predominant among Christians up until the later half of the 20th century. Though Germany's disdain of Jews was no different than that of England, France, America or any other western nation.

[LISA]

^^ except Canada,,do your math

[TAP]

BERLIN (AFP) – Germany's attempt to create a multi-cultural society has failed completely, Chancellor Angela Merkel said at the weekend, calling on the country's immigrants to learn German and adopt Christian values.

Christian values? Like when the vatican was in bed with the Nazis in WW2.

One could certainly argue that a distrust of Jews was predominant among Christians up until the later half of the 20th century. Though Germany's disdain of Jews was no different than that of England, France, America or any other western nation.

True but not really my point. "Christian values" is such a meaningless phrase, it's basically saying 'My way is right because God is on my side'

[Mr. Roboto]

True but not really my point. "Christian values" is such a meaningless phrase, it's basically saying 'My way is right because God is on my side'

It's been proven time and time again that no religion or somebody who claims to follow a particular relgion corners the market on "values" either.

[freedom78]

I would dispute the idea that you can ever "create" multiculturalism, and am not surprised to see that such efforts fail in Europe especially, where the traditional nation-state (i.e. the people are generally of one national/cultural identity and that identity conforms pretty well with state boundaries) is strongest. You see it everywhere, from the anti-Muslim laws they're enacting in France, to the banning of Mosque minarets in Switzerland, to the German difficulty in embracing its long standing population of Turkish migrant workers, to the tendency in many European countries to elect hyper-nationalist, xenophobic political parties to some measure of power (in some cases, the highest seats of power).

While there is certainly a comparison to be made with America, the thing I'd note is that those taking a similar path here are subscribing to the idea of an American national identity that does not exist in the same way it does in many European states. One can be "French" and I can generalize that said person is white, speaks French, has French ancestors, and lives within most French cultural norms. This does not apply to the United States or, for that matter, to pretty much any country in the Western hemisphere.

One could certainly argue that a distrust of Jews was predominant among Christians up until the later half of the 20th century. Though Germany's disdain of Jews was no different than that of England, France, America or any other western nation.

This reminds me of Karen Armstrong's historical piece Holy War, in which she discusses the role of religious discrimination and violence back as far as the Crusades as the roots of today's violence/distrust between the three Abrahamic religions. It's certainly an interesting read, if only for the history, whether you agree with her thesis or not (and many, including myself, have some difficulty laying the blame for current issues at the feet of one major event about 1000 years ago).

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^^ except Canada,,do your math

Jews were discriminated against in Canada the same as they were elsewhere. Canada is not special in this aspect. The US didn't have any laws discriminating against them, but one hardly needs defined laws to establish cultural discrimination. Canada while a beautiful and progressive country, is not to be herald as some bastion of egalitarian society.

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Christian values? Like when the vatican was in bed with the Nazis in WW2.

One could certainly argue that a distrust of Jews was predominant among Christians up until the later half of the 20th century. Though Germany's disdain of Jews was no different than that of England, France, America or any other western nation.

True but not really my point. "Christian values" is such a meaningless phrase, it's basically saying 'My way is right because God is on my side'

It can mean that, but that is not how it's meant when people refer to America as a nation founded on christian values or in the way Merkel used it in Germany. Christian values is almost synonomous with western values. Jews were hassled in Europe because they stayed within Jewish communities and strictly associated with other Jews. Much as the same as muslims do now. I don't believe in Christ or even an all powerful God, but if you asked me what religion's teachings I would most align myself with I would say Christianity. As would most people born in a western nation. I'm with Bill Maher 100% when it comes to religion, but to deny the role christianity has had on western values and culture is to play stupid. The two are inseperable up to this point. That doesn't mean that all other religions and cultures are completely incompatible with western beliefs, but it does mean that people unwilling to even make the most basic step on integration and learn the language of the land should not be praised or rewarded under the guise of diversity.