39 replies to this topic

[PERM BANNED]

IWhile there is certainly a comparison to be made with America, the thing I'd note is that those taking a similar path here are subscribing to the idea of an American national identity that does not exist in the same way it does in many European states. One can be "French" and I can generalize that said person is white, speaks French, has French ancestors, and lives within most French cultural norms. This does not apply to the United States or, for that matter, to pretty much any country in the Western hemisphere.

I strongly disagree. If I were to say one is Mexican, I can safely assume they are latino, speak spanish, are catholic and live within the cultural norms of mexico. If I were to say American, I have a roughly 65% chance or so of identifying a white person, over 80% chance of finding someone who considers themself christian, speaks english and enjoys stereotypical american norms, such as football and pizza. Outside of the US and Canada, the whole melting pot story goes to shit. Latin America is by and large universal in its demographics. With the exception of Brazil, spanish is the dominant language, and christianity their religion. The problem is that America has had a defined culture for well over 200 years, in as much as anyone can maintain a culture for that period. Only in recent decades has their been a noticable change in demographics, mainly from hispanics which outside of language, aren't vastly different in their basic beliefs. Rather than accept that America is basically a mix of all the big cultural points of our European ancestors, some continue to spread the crap about being a nation of immigrants and america having no defined culture. When up until recently every elected leader and succesful business man was white, spoke english and was christian, that pretty much denies any alleged melting pot in contemporary america. Take away Obama's skin color and he's no different than the last 10 presidents. Not exactly the revolution of multiculturalism some want to make it sound.

[artcinco]

Doesn't the problem of multi-culti show up when certain members of an immigrant group want to apply their own legal system to their new host country? Currently the underlying problem is how do the western democracies deal with sharia law. At what point do the host countries/cultures say you can wear traditional garb, have parades and school holidays but we can't allow honor killings?

[freedom78]

IWhile there is certainly a comparison to be made with America, the thing I'd note is that those taking a similar path here are subscribing to the idea of an American national identity that does not exist in the same way it does in many European states. One can be "French" and I can generalize that said person is white, speaks French, has French ancestors, and lives within most French cultural norms. This does not apply to the United States or, for that matter, to pretty much any country in the Western hemisphere.

I strongly disagree. If I were to say one is Mexican, I can safely assume they are latino, speak spanish, are catholic and live within the cultural norms of mexico. If I were to say American, I have a roughly 65% chance or so of identifying a white person, over 80% chance of finding someone who considers themself christian, speaks english and enjoys stereotypical american norms, such as football and pizza. Outside of the US and Canada, the whole melting pot story goes to shit.

A 65% chance might mean there's a majority culture, but nothing near the universal national identity that is at least sought after in European states. And football and pizza are things that have been around for about 100 and 60 years, respectively. Hardly the makings of a long standing culture, let alone a true national identity of one people. Instead, I'd argue that most of our truly shared culture has more to do with politics than anything else. First, because it's a part of this country for as long as anything can be. Second, ideas like "freedom" and "democracy" can be nearly universally held while still allowing for a great deal of differences in how they are exercised.

Latin America is by and large universal in its demographics. With the exception of Brazil, spanish is the dominant language, and christianity their religion. The problem is that America has had a defined culture for well over 200 years, in as much as anyone can maintain a culture for that period. Only in recent decades has their been a noticable change in demographics, mainly from hispanics which outside of language, aren't vastly different in their basic beliefs. Rather than accept that America is basically a mix of all the big cultural points of our European ancestors, some continue to spread the crap about being a nation of immigrants and america having no defined culture. When up until recently every elected leader and succesful business man was white, spoke english and was christian, that pretty much denies any alleged melting pot in contemporary america. Take away Obama's skin color and he's no different than the last 10 presidents. Not exactly the revolution of multiculturalism some want to make it sound.

Latin America is incredibly culturally diverse. You have indigenous, white European, black African, and a shit-ton of racially mixed peoples. Just look at any US baseball team for evidence. Visit Argentina and then visit the Yucatan in Mexico and tell me those share a universal demography. Sharing a language and a religion does not a culture make, and it's important to point out that for many millions Spanish (or Portuguese) is NOT their first language.

My beef with what you wrote is that you begin with this Europe's Greatest Hits approach and then assume that it does or should apply universally. Surely you can recognize that we can't just be a mix of European cultures when we had millions of African slaves. Shit, just go from rock n' roll to the blues to slave songs and you've proven that, if nothing else, our musical cultural is far from derivative of European culture. Furthermore, if we're simply a mix of European cultural attributes, then wouldn't it serve to see Europe as a single culture? I think they'd dispute that. If our culture, for example, shares the language of the English and the love of pizza of the Italians, that doesn't mean we have a "European culture" any more than we'd have an "Eastern culture" because we like Chinese carry out.

[TAP]

Doesn't the problem of multi-culti show up when certain members of an immigrant group want to apply their own legal system to their new host country? Currently the underlying problem is how do the western democracies deal with sharia law. At what point do the host countries/cultures say you can wear traditional garb, have parades and school holidays but we can't allow honor killings?

Is Sharia a law a real problem, or a pretend made up scaremongering problem. The Nevada loonie claims Sharia law exists in two towns - only one of the town doesn't even exist. I'm pretty sure there isn't a western democracy that is considering legalizing honor killing.

[freedom78]

Doesn't the problem of multi-culti show up when certain members of an immigrant group want to apply their own legal system to their new host country? Currently the underlying problem is how do the western democracies deal with sharia law. At what point do the host countries/cultures say you can wear traditional garb, have parades and school holidays but we can't allow honor killings?

I'd say any effort to circumvent and/or replace secular law with something like Sharia would automatically be a major problem in any Western state. Using the Muslim example, one could certainly apply the principles of Sharia to their daily lives in terms of interpreting right and wrong and sometimes applying punishment, but there would clearly be limits that could not be exceeded. In the United States, there need only be a compelling state interest for religious acts to be prohibited. Thus, things like ritual sacrifice or other religious violence, polygamy, and occasionally faith healing (for children), among other things, are prohibited.

Think of it this way. Parents have different conceptions of what their children to do. With regard to something like teenagers having sex, some parents are likely much stricter than others and, inevitably, some derive that from a religious belief that sex outside of marriage is sinful and an act to be prohibited or punished. Now, some ultra crazies in the Islamic world might want to stone said fornicators, much as the Bible describes adultery as having a death sentence. Neither, of course, would be permissible. However, that doesn't prohibit religion from dictating that right and wrong of the scenario and the NEED for a punishment outside of the normal legal system.

[TAP]

freedom is correct, there is no such thing as European culture.

[artcinco]

BLACK LIVES MATTER ACCUSES PUBLIC LIBRARY OF “WHITE SUPREMACY”

[Mr. Roboto]

BLACK LIVES MATTER ACCUSES PUBLIC LIBRARY OF “WHITE SUPREMACY”

 

They have a great opportunity to make very valid points, but keep fucking it up. 

[PERM BANNED]

They have a great opportunity to make very valid points, but keep fucking it up.

What are their points? Seriously, can someone here explain it? I see a movement founded on a lie (hands up, don't shoot!) that refuses to acknowledge that a 70% out of wedlock child birth rate and the lowest high school graduation rate of any demographic, are the root cause of all their woes. Even if racist cops were out to shoot any black person they found, the vast majority of their problems are personal.

So how does championing BLM help people of color? Don't break the law, don't resist arrest and don't assault police and 99% of their examples would be alive today.

[freedom78]

BLACK LIVES MATTER ACCUSES PUBLIC LIBRARY OF “WHITE SUPREMACY”

 

That's pretty stupid.  These movements did a lot better when they had smart people in charge.

[Arminius]

I'd say any effort to circumvent and/or replace secular law with something like Sharia would automatically be a major problem in any Western state.

 

Only for as long as there are westerners living in that state. Who is going to stop them when they reach 30-40% and beyond? It's a democracy after all.

 

With the current demographic trend there will be no "western countries" in 2100.

[freedom78]

I'll respond, but not for six years.

[artcinco]

‘Sesame Street’ Unveils Hijab-Clad Muppet: ‘Zari’ Is A Feminist From Afghanistan

 

[freedom78]

Last one in before Trump takes office...

[artcinco]

Oscar the Grouch inherits money. Gives campaign contributions to local Sesame Street officials. Seizes Mr. Hooper's store through eminent domain. Puts up high-priced condos.