86 replies to this topic

[Mr. Roboto]

[Gomer Pyle]

I was reading about this issue on another site. Its definitely turning into a national security issue. I doubt its dealt with though. They aren't even frying the fish up there now, so the new fish have to rot.

[Gomer Pyle]

About 3,500 acres of southern Arizona on the Mexican border have been closed off to U.S. citizens because it cannot be defended, according to Fox News.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service told Fox News that the reason is due to the increased violence in the area.

“It’s literally out of control,” Pinal County Sheriff Paul Babeu told Fox News. “We stood with Senator McCain and literally demanded support for 3,000 soldiers to be deployed to Arizona to get this under control and finally secure our border with Mexico. “

“We need support from the federal government. It’s their job to secure the border and they haven’t done it,” said Babeu. “In fact, President Obama suspended the construction of the fence and it’s just simply outrageous.”
The closed off area includes part of the Buenos Aires National Wildlife Refuge that stretches along the U.S.-Mexico border.

Babeu told Fox News that violence against law enforcement officers and U.S. citizens has increased in the past four months, forcing officers on an 80 mile stretch of Arizona land north of the Mexico border off-limits to Americans.

The refuge had been adversely affected by the increase in drug smugglers, illegal activity and surveillance, which made it dangerous for Americans to visit.

"The situation in this zone has reached a point where continued public use of the area is not prudent," said refuge manager Mitch Ellis.

http://www.newsmax.c...06/16/id/362195

[Gomer Pyle]

Time for him to do something or get the fuck out of Washington. When you're basically giving up U.S. land to Mexico, you do not have this nation's interest at heart. Mexico's narco war is spilling over here to an unacceptable level and its time to get troops down there immediately.

[TAP]

It was closed in 2006.

[Gomer Pyle]

Oh I get it. It's a partisan issue. The current crisis spinning out of control doesn't matter. Gotta dig for a republican that dropped the ball as well, which makes it ok now. Too funny. People were bitching about this long before Mr. hope and change walked through the door. Just because its getting worse now doesn't mean he deserves a free pass. I wish all these illegals would take a detour to your state instead of coming here. You would take it a bit more seriously if you were bumping into them every time you left the house. If you ever make a trip down here to the valley, I'll take you on a tour of this place and let you see what they've done to this area. It's been desecrated. Do you have children? Ever take them to a park? Guess what? Cant do that here. There's shit smeared everywhere, used condoms all over the place, and packs of them live down on the river next to several parks. Murders happen every year down there. You and your girlfriend/wife hungry, not in the mood to cook so decide to go out and get a burger? I warn you in advance that your burger is gonna be colder than a witch's tit and unfit for human consumption. Why? Because most of these places hire these border jumpers. Chico cant speak english very well and doesn't give a fuck about what he's doing, and certainly doesn't give a fuck about you. Your reward in this transaction is being served garbage. Do you use any drugs? If so, I'll take you into some neighborhoods that will have you shaking in your boots. Gone are the innocent days of whites, blacks, and asians controlling the drug culture. The Mexican Mafia is entrenched down here, and they'll pull a gun out in three shakes of a lamb's tail. Feel like going to a movie? As you enter and exit the building, these people will be begging you for money. Need to take your mother/grandmother to the Social Security office? Better tell her its about a 6 or 7 hour wait(maybe longer). All the illegals have a number long before hers will ever come up. These government buildings look like INS detainment camps. Got any kids in school? Bring em down here and enroll them. They wont learn much because more than half the class speaks spanish and their teacher caters to their needs, not yours. Plan a vacation with your family to Yosemite National Park. Just be sure not to stray too far from the trails. Mexican Mafia has illegals up there guarding huge marijuana crops with machine guns. Even the cops stay away. This may sound like a partisan picnic to you. Come on down. I'll show you things that will open your eyes immediately. I got an even better idea....... move here. I don't care who started it. The problem doesn't need to be dealt with a year ago, ten years ago, or twenty years ago. It needs to be dealt with NOW.

[Mr. Roboto]

Plan a vacation with your family to Yosemite National Park. Just be sure not to stray too far from the trails. Mexican Mafia has illegals up there guarding huge marijuana crops with machine guns. Even the cops stay away.

I'm a big outdoor/park guy, and that shit really makes me angry.

[Gomer Pyle]

The only way that post would be racist is if millions of white illegal immigrants were jumping the border and I was ranting against Latinos while ignoring them. We know who's doing it so there's no point in sugarcoating it. Sugarcoating is one of the things that got us into this mess. If your house was infested by roaches, would you rant against grasshoppers? No. You'd deal with your roach problem instead of being worried about offending them. A few months ago, a couple teenagers were killed in an accident in this area. The offender was an illegal immigrant. Let me guess.....it's racist to want this dipshit removed? I triple dog dare you to go feed that line to the fathers of those girls. There isn't enough time to put everyone in rehab to try and solve this. You're not fond of the war on drugs, yet suggest one of its solutions. That's not the solution anyways. You still have to deal with the millions of illegals here even if everyone is clean and sober. Start attacking the problem instead of those who see the problem. First step is not giving them access to government benefits and free health care. No more anchor babies. Enforce the laws already on the books since the 80s and start penalizing companies that hire them. They're not here to work. That's a myth. Most of them come here to fleece our country. Go hang out over at Country Market in Ceres. You'll eventually see one of these chicks digging through a handful of EBT cards("food stamps"). An American that qualifies gets one of these cards. Why does the border jumper have ten? Send this cunt back to Mexico and hand out her ten EBT cards to women and children up in those shelters. None of these people have paid into Social Security so why are they packed in their offices like sardines. GET THEM OUT OF THERE. Instead of handing out SSI checks to all these border jumpers, start handing them out to unemployed Americans instead. I agree about legalizing marijuana. However, that's just a baby step. The exodus of people running here has to start going in the opposite direction. The ONLY way to do that is destroy their incentive to come here. Chico not getting a handful of SSI checks, EBT cards, and a medical card the nanosecond he gets here will make him think twice about making the journey. Also, start throwing these people in jail. I don't care if you have to put up tents surrounded with razor wire. Start rounding them up. This is a national security issue. Get the military to the border immediately. After you do that, start actually building that wall. Leave vital entrance/exit points obviously, but the days of pregnant women dancing across the border with grins on their faces has to stop. Also, send the military to these national parks and eradicate that bullshit. If you and Obama and whoever else thinks this is a racist issue and should be left alone, you need to pay higher taxes that goes towards offsetting some of their fleecing of the system. The people who support this tripe need to start paying for it. Maybe even open their homes up for some of these families. Put the women and children rotting in these shelters on section 8 and let them live in those low income apartments while Chico, Maria, and their six kids live with you. You can also put them on your health insurance plan. Should be easy since the current system now saves money.... Like I said, its time for action. If you support the current situation and want irrelevant band aids placed on the gaping wound, start paying for it. Maybe Obama can start adding a check box on tax forms so certain people can donate 10-20% of their income to finance Mexico's raping and invasion of this country. If you guys can figure out a way to finance our ruination without it impacting everyday Americans, I'll go ahead and support this bullshit too.

[Gomer Pyle]

It's not distinguishing them as illegal immigrants that's racist. It's the implication that Mexicans are lazy (can't make your hamburger), inferior (can't speak your all important language, which isn't even the national language), and leeches on society (social security). How do you distinguish between legal and illegal immigrants? How do you distinguish between drug dealers and other immigrants, legal or not? You don't. They're either drug dealers or illegal stereotypes. THAT'S what was racist...not the statement that they're illegal. Of course now you've compared Mexicans with a roach infestation...

You're smart enough to understand the point I was making with the roach/grasshopper example. You're also smart enough to know it's not racist, so just drop that attack. It's beneath you.

Go place your kid(s) in a classroom where the majority speak Spanish since the concept sounds like peaches and cream to you. We both know you wont though. That would bring the problem too close to you.

You need to move down here or come for a visit. Your comments show you are just too out of touch to really be commenting on the issue. You need to wallow in the trenches for awhile to actually get a real perspective on it. I'm racist because they cant make a fucking burger? PM me your address. I'll send you one of their hamburgers through UPS. You take a bite out of that and then tell me I'm racist. We both know what you'd do. You'd just throw it away unopened. Out of sight, out of mind(unless its a google search).

The fact you don't know how to distinguish anything once again shows you have no first hand experience dealing with this. Like I told TAP, come on down. In the words of Pinhead, I have such sights to show you....


I don't mean for this to sound like I'm trying to "talk down" to you. You're obviously intelligent and probably one of the smartest people on these GNR boards. I just think you're unable to truly grasp the issue since you're so far away from it and it doesn't impact your daily life.

Don't you think its interesting that the people living in these border states(INCLUDING legal immigrants) want a crackdown while those not living in it do not?

Your plan to penalize companies hiring them, followed up with your assertion that they're not here to work doesn't jive. Which is it? If we penalize these companies, does it mean we'll be handing out zero penalties since illegals don't work? There are approximately 7 million illegal immigrants employed in this country. Guess that doesn't count as work?

Starting to sound like a broken record, but there's a big difference in you trolling the net for statistics and actually living in the thick of it. Of course some of them work. There's some in the fields about half a mile from my house. For every one that is picking strawberries, there's a handful raping the government. If you don't believe it, get your ass down here. The few picking strawberries and whipping up cold and tasteless Big Macs carry the myth. But since you're on the opposite side of the country thousands of miles away and say they all work, I guess that makes it true.....

It's a bit of a stretch, don't you think, to suggest that arresting a killer is racist or would be seen that way by any but the lunatic fringe. But if it was an accident and not due to some sort of negligence or recklessness on his part then I fail to see how this serves as a condemnation of illegal immigrants. Accidents happen. Would their fathers feel better if their daughters had been killed in an accident with American citizens? What kind of fucked up thinking is that?

WOW. Since you obviously don't give a shit, let's make the same situation more personal for you....

Tomorrow, your wife/daughter is in an accident. Unfortunately, they don't make it. Come to find out, a drunk illegal ran into their car head on. According to you, this doesn't matter because they could have just as easily been killed by an American citizen while totally neglecting the fact they'd be alive had this person been where they belong.

Cant believe you even went there or would have such a view on a tragedy of that magnitude.

Or, not.

Too funny. You actually think a fruit picker offsets all the others. Once again, you're simply too far away from the issue to really offer any legitimate insight into it. Google isn't a substitute for reality.

Also, how do you know who is or is not illegal? Does any latino/a making use of government services set off your illegal-dar?

Get down here ASAP. These people don't hide this fact.

This is where it gets confusing. You're lumping together two separate issues: drug trafficking and illegal immigration. The vast majority of illegal immigrants have NOTHING to do with drug trafficking.

The fact you believe this is ludicrous, especially after your long post above regarding drugs. They are linked, and that last sentence is just another example of you needing to be in the trenches instead of surfing the net for the so called facts.

You think the incentive to come here is based in social security? If so, wouldn't they just keep on walking all the way to Canada, with it's bigger social safety net? Either way, illegal immigrants are NOT entitled to social security benefits. If they're getting them, they're likely breaking some other law (i.e. fraud) in order to do so. And, again, how do you distinguish between legal and illegal? You can't simply look at a brown person speaking Spanish and assume they're illegal.

They come here because Mexico and Mexicans are, relatively, poor. As long as the quality of life in the US remains significantly higher than in Mexico, we'll have an illegal immigration problem. Interestingly enough, the quality of life concern is also the root of people seeking employment in drug trafficking. It pays well. The large scale solution to both immigration and drugs is dealing with poverty.

They get SS and SSI checks. I don't care what any link(including a government link) tells you. I see it with my own eyes. If you don't believe it, get down here and I'll take you to a few houses with this going on. You can go on a drug run with me and I'll be sure to take you to the house full of gang bangers with guns laying all over the place and five of these young and healthy guys drawing SSI checks and laughing about it.

How do you distinguish between legal or illegal? For one thing, none of them keep it a secret anymore. There's no reason to. Also, just ask for their "papers". Not sure why you and others opposed to a crackdown on immigration don't understand the basic concept of knowing who's who.


Why risk going to Canada and getting kicked out when they can have everything they desire here? They would have shit for brains if they crossed our border and then immediately ran further north.

I have no objections to this, though the fence, where completed, has repeatedly been overcome by ramps and such. The fence will NOT stop illegal immigration and I can imagine it having only a marginal effect on drug trafficking, much of which is done not through runs through the desert but through normal border checkpoints where agents have been bribed.

Every fence so far has been a joke. IF a real one is ever put there, it will most certainly cause a massive decrease in border jumping. They'll be forced into using the few real border crossings, and yes some will get through. The issue isn't stopping it completely. It's simply decreasing it to a point where it's not impacting our way of life.

For the record, I have nothing against legal immigration. I know that a small minority of Mexican citizens come here for a legitimate reason, and do play a role in the agricultural economy of the CA valley. I'm just not gonna broad stroke the issue and claim these strawberry pickers represent all the people crossing the border. I live in it and understand the myth, just like all others who live here.

I don't think dealing with drug traffickers is a racist issue. However, our treatment of immigrants often is...amazing when you consider that we're a nation of immigrants.

Yeah, I definitely don't miss the hint of irony on the issue.

The issue didn't bother me as much in previous decades. It's always been a problem here but was always under the surface. It's reached a crisis point now.


edit: Missed a quote...

I'm not sure if you mean the dealers/traffickers or just illegal immigrants. It would be strange if this were your approach to illegal immigration. You'd complain about them fleecing the system only to move them into a system of complete dependence on the government?

If you don't see the difference in temporarily jailing them until sending them back home and letting them all live on SSI for fifty years, then fuck I just don't know what to tell you.

[Gomer Pyle]

You jumped the shark when you pretended that anything I wrote condoned the killing of someone else.

So, yeah, I'm done here.

Last night I had a feeling you would take the easy way out of this discussion, so no surprise from me on this turn of events.



You're smart to be "done here". You don't have the slightest clue on what's going on here and your services will be better utilized in other threads here. Neither does TAP, but at least he posted one sentence attempting to tie it in with Bush and then walked away instead of hanging around making an ass out of himself.



Would their fathers feel better if their daughters had been killed in an accident with American citizens? What kind of fucked up thinking is that?



Would their fathers feel better if their daughters had been killed in an accident with American citizens? What kind of fucked up thinking is that?



Would their fathers feel better if their daughters had been killed in an accident with American citizens? What kind of fucked up thinking is that?


Would their fathers feel better if their daughters had been killed in an accident with American citizens? What kind of fucked up thinking is that?

[Gomer Pyle]

Even more predictable than your last response. You conduct yourself so well for a moderator. I need people like you on staff for my own site. Telling the few active members to fuck off is one of the key ingredients to a successful site.

[freedom78]

Insulting my unasked for and never used moderator powers? Now that's just hitting below the belt.

[Gomer Pyle]

Insulting my unasked for and never used moderator powers?

Now that's just hitting below the belt.

Freedom, I don't know your story here. While I have known you for years(mainly at HTGTH), I don't know your life story. I have never had any problems with you(until now obviously) and have no idea what the back story is on you becoming a moderator here. You do have the moderator tag under your name, and that does require conducting yourself a certain way. Calling me an asshole and telling me to fuck myself is "below the belt" for someone in such a position. If I was a troll here, fine. Call me all the names in the book until SLC flushes me down the toilet.

While this argument was heated, name calling wasn't warranted.

I don't even post at many sites anymore. I run my own GNR site so certainly don't need to post at another one. I came here cause SLC invited me and I like the group assembled here(including you).

When posting that example which pissed you off, I actually felt a bit uncomfortable posting it. Not because of any heat you'd throw my way, but if something actually happened to your family not long after that I would have been devastated. I always felt personal shit should be kept off the boards, but using such an example was really the only way to hammer that point in with such a stance you took. I figured you would see the tragedy in a different light, but instead took it as a "shark jump".

[Mr. Roboto]

Even more predictable than your last response.


You conduct yourself so well for a moderator. I need people like you on staff for my own site. Telling the few active members to fuck off is one of the key ingredients to a successful site.

Well lets be honest, this site (or any other forum I've had) never prided itself on having any type of moral code. I want mods around in case some weirdo decides to spam the place up etc.

As far as interactions with one another, I've always had the idea that we're all grown ups here. I don't need to tell anybody, or have a moderator tell anybody, that their language is naughty or behavior is bad. Just like I don't need to step into this thread and tell anybody to "cool it." The discussion will end when it ends, in one way or another.

[Gomer Pyle]

Even more predictable than your last response.


You conduct yourself so well for a moderator. I need people like you on staff for my own site. Telling the few active members to fuck off is one of the key ingredients to a successful site.

Well lets be honest, this site (or any other forum I've had) never prided itself on having any type of moral code. I want mods around in case some weirdo decides to spam the place up etc.

As far as interactions with one another, I've always had the idea that we're all grown ups here. I don't need to tell anybody, or have a moderator tell anybody, that their language is naughty or behavior is bad. Just like I don't need to step into this thread and tell anybody to "cool it." The discussion will end when it ends, in one way or another.

You're a member of my site and as you know, I take a similar stance. People debate shit on all subjects, and like here, the mods just mingle in with everyone else. However, when insults start flying, not only is it an immature debate tactic, it brings the whole site down quality wise. Some lurker reading this exchange can realize they can get the same treatment at cd.com Instead of freedom telling me to go fuck myself in what was a pretty good debate, I can easily go have Adz tell me to fuck myself over at HTGTH. As you know from your own experience, a lot of people left those big sites to get away from that bullshit.

About a year ago here, cousin It owned me every which way but loose on communist influence in Southeast Asia. Did I tell him to go fuck himself?? No, I chalked it up to a lesson learned and felt a bit more informed on the issue.