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#31 PERM BANNED

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 09:15 PM

I love how white American conservatives can switch so easily from small government libertarians who couldn't possibly contribute a cent of their tax money to socialist medicin, to big government authoritarians who are fake-concerned that something that hasn't lead to a single death but might have. Love the criticism of foreign governments for corruption and incompetence, given that the entire govt system here is bought and paid for by oil companies, wall street and other corporations and Sarah Palin is a leading candidate to be the next president. I also love the smell of irony in the morning.





Then why do you want to be a citizen? Sounds like you might be better off staying in England. Unless you're a sadist, you're not going to be very happy here.


Have you been lurking around all day just to add that zinger as soon as I posted? I love living here, fortunately I don't get to spend much time with white conservatives, whackaloon GOP senators or Sarah Palin - I can't even see her from my back yard. Why do you stay here if you hate big government so much?


Actually no, I just happened to check the forum and saw a new reply. America isn't completely ruined yet, and I swore an oath to America's constitution. I'm not in the business of shopping around for countries to call home. I was fortunate enough to have been born in the best.

So what you're telling me is that you don't have much contact or understanding with middle america? Cause a lot of what you say and believe is about as far left as it gets here. You're going to be really unhappy come 2012 so it looks.
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#32 TAP

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 09:25 PM

So what you're telling me is that you don't have much contact or understanding with middle america? Cause a lot of what you say and believe is about as far left as it gets here. You're going to be really unhappy come 2012 so it looks.


A lot of what you say is far right fascism if we want to get silly. I've been here since Reagan was president, lived in the midwest for 9 years so I'm certainly aware of your kind - but much happier in NYC.
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#33 PERM BANNED

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 09:31 PM


So what you're telling me is that you don't have much contact or understanding with middle america? Cause a lot of what you say and believe is about as far left as it gets here. You're going to be really unhappy come 2012 so it looks.


A lot of what you say is far right fascism if we want to get silly. I've been here since Reagan was president, lived in the midwest for 9 years so I'm certainly aware of your kind - but much happier in NYC.





Yes, because I'm the one who advocates state control or at least strong involvement over industry, regulation and oversight into personal freedoms and an obvious desire to remove(define remove as you please) all people I deem undesireable and dislike. Your quickness to drop the fascist label speaks volumes about you. I believe in equality under the law, not equality provided by the law. Helping the helpless and not the clueless. What's funny is if you believe in American values and freedoms as the founders defined it, my beliefs and ideas are almost a spitting image. But hey, call me a fascist all day long. No skin off my ass. You'll still be another joiner who came for the goods and offered nothing in return.
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#34 TAP

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 09:39 PM

I don't really think you are a fascist, that's what the 'if we want to get silly' means, dopey.
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#35 PERM BANNED

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 09:41 PM

I don't really think you are a fascist, that's what the 'if we want to get silly' means, dopey.




Then I apologize and stand corrected. I'm sorry.
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#36 TAP

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 09:48 PM

Well alright, just for the record, I think you're an intelligent decent human being - just that I would disagree with you about a lot of things, though possibly less than you might think. What makes me 'far left'?
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#37 TAP

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 11:06 PM

http://www.rawstory....what-wikileaks/
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#38 freedom78

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 12:16 AM

Well alright, just for the record, I think you're an intelligent decent human being - just that I would disagree with you about a lot of things, though possibly less than you might think. What makes me 'far left'?


Umm...you're an academic? Duh.
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#39 Mr. Roboto

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 12:18 AM

[Helping the helpless and not the clueless.


Sure that's catchy and all, but how do you distinguish between the two? I'd be curious to hear that.

Well alright, just for the record, I think you're an intelligent decent human being ...


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#40 PERM BANNED

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 12:00 PM

Well alright, just for the record, I think you're an intelligent decent human being - just that I would disagree with you about a lot of things, though possibly less than you might think. What makes me 'far left'?



The feeling is mutual, and I again apologize for my choice of words. As is obviously true, defining someone's political opinions into one nice box or label is unfair. And the plethora of political discussions and topics that would ultimate evaluate someone's political category relative to the American paradigm of left/right is hardly fully elaborated on these forums. However, as one could identify me as right because I support full free market initatives and a total disdain for government entitlement programs, I can equally place you into the left(er) bracket because of your support (to what extent is of course debatable) for government intervention in the market as well as support for social programs such as health care. Though as you well know, it's more more difficult than that.
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#41 PERM BANNED

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 12:09 PM

[Helping the helpless and not the clueless.


Sure that's catchy and all, but how do you distinguish between the two? I'd be curious to hear that.


As a quick an easy example, in the AP article Tues or Wed when they announced that the Unemployment benefits were coming to an end, one of the sob stories of someone being affected was some women under 30 with five kids. Unmarried of course. That is being clueless. So what you will, but if you continually choose to pop out puppies with no father figure or $100,000,000 in powerball winnings, you're a fucking moron and deserve to be made an example out of. Not sympathy. Equally, I saw an article yesterday about college debt increasing dramatically. Some idiot owes 200k for a student loan for the Sociology degree she got. Now I despise Sociology as a major above all others because it doesn't teach anything of real value and empowers the dumbest of the dumb to feel as if they have a better understanding of all the world's woes (and again, it's never the fuckups who are wrong, but the groups around them that cause their pain). But that's besides the point. With a degree in Sociology, you'd be lucky to pull in some social worker job in the mid to high 20s. As the article said, she owes 1500 a month in loan repayment. You do the math and see how well she'll end up. And this conclusion shouldn't have come as a suprise to her. She could have easily determined the average salary of someone with a sociology degree and calculate if she could afford the loans she was taking out. That's being clueless. The list can go on, and there are certainly exceptions to the rule, but by in large the majority of people who are truly fucked right now can look in the mirror to find the source of their problem. It's not the government's/publics responsibility to baby sit and make everything okay just because you couldn't handle living in the adult world.



There has to be a time when we say enough is enough and force people to suffer the consequences of their actions. Otherwise, they'll continue to fuck up and the cycle will never end. Don't you find it interesting that as we increase entitlement programs, more and more people are finding ways to use them?
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#42 TAP

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 02:12 PM

However, as one could identify me as right because I support full free market initatives and a total disdain for government entitlement programs, I can equally place you into the left(er) bracket because of your support (to what extent is of course debatable) for government intervention in the market as well as support for social programs such as health care. Though as you well know, it's more more difficult than that.


The things that I really care about are science, hypocrisy, religion, freedom of information and discussion based on fact rather than disinformation, and not so much on ideology or economics. If more people agree with you than me, then we should do it your way (outside of constitutional protections) but have an honest debate.

For example, with healthcare, my interest is not so much about stuff being done my way, but that the debate is about the facts instead of attaching 'socialized' to it and immediately swaying those people who automatically think of the cold war and Red Dawn. Why does the debate need to be focused on a deliberate misinterpretation of a small aspect which wouldn't happen until 2014 (fines) and made up stuff like death panels, instead of the main actual content of the bill. My own opinion of what I'd like to happen is similar to freedom's - it doesn't make any sense to simultaneously say that government is less efficient than free market, but that government health insurance would have an unfair advantage. Make the government a player in the market, reduce the state line disadvantage stuff for private insurance and let the market decide if you can sustain $10m CEO salaries.

Perhaps that makes me left by US standards, though I suspect it would make me centrist if the debate was honest. It certainly doesn't make me a socialist or far left. I'm acquainted (in the past) with what I would call the far left in the UK - travellers, squatters, socialist worker party members etc, that's not me :)

Economics in general, I'm certainly not in favor of doling out lots of cash to serial non-workers, but a free market needs unemployment to stay competitive and you can't just let people starve both from a humanitarian stand point, and a pragmatic, selfish point of reducing civil unrest/crime etc

I don't think the US economy is really a free market any more though. Social mobility is almost non-existent, the biggest indicator of wealth is your parent's wealth. I don't think it's good for the country's economic health that there are 237 millionaires in congress and the average senator is worth $2.2m, maybe that makes me a socialist :)
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#43 TAP

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 02:16 PM

Well alright, just for the record, I think you're an intelligent decent human being - just that I would disagree with you about a lot of things, though possibly less than you might think. What makes me 'far left'?


Umm...you're an academic? Duh.


I always try to squeeze a 20 minute trotskyist rant into my remedial algebra classes, but the kids only seem to care whether it will be on the exam :D
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#44 freedom78

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 08:40 PM

Well alright, just for the record, I think you're an intelligent decent human being - just that I would disagree with you about a lot of things, though possibly less than you might think. What makes me 'far left'?


Umm...you're an academic? Duh.


I always try to squeeze a 20 minute trotskyist rant into my remedial algebra classes, but the kids only seem to care whether it will be on the exam :D


I like to explain to my students that we don't know how well Trotskyism worked, because Stalin had him killed. Thus, all communism has been of the Leninist variety (or variations thereof), rather than the truly Marxist variety (w/ Trotsky falling somewhere in between Marx and Lenin/Stalin).

Also, Che Guevara loves Taco Bell. I'm pretty sure that's important.
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#45 Timothy

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 05:15 PM

(Dec. 2) -- The international manhunt for WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange in a sex-crime investigation in Sweden apparently stems from a condom malfunction.

Assange's London attorney, Mark Stephens, told AOL News today that Swedish prosecutors told him that Assange is wanted not for allegations of rape, as previously reported, but for something called "sex by surprise," which he said involves a fine of 5,000 kronor or about $715.

Assange is the subject of an international manhunt, as a result of Interpol issuing a "red notice," a warrant indicating the person should be arrested with a view to extradition.
Posted Image'Sex by Surprise' at heart of Swedish criminal case against Julian AssangeJulian Assange, founder of the WikiLeaks website, is wanted in a sex-crime investigation in Sweden.
"We don't even know what 'sex by surprise' even means, and they haven't told us," Stephens said, just hours after Sweden's Supreme Court rejected Assange's bid to prevent an arrest order from being issued against him on allegations of sex crimes.

"Whatever 'sex by surprise' is, it's only a offense in Sweden -- not in the U.K. or the U.S. or even Ibiza," Stephens said. "I feel as if I'm in a surreal Swedish movie being threatened by bizarre trolls. The prosecutor has not asked to see Julian, never asked to interview him, and he hasn't been charged with anything. He's been told he's wanted for questioning, but he doesn't know the nature of the allegations against him."

The strange tale of Assange's brief flings with two Swedish women during a three-day period in mid-August -- and decisions by three different prosecutors to first dismiss rape allegations made by the women and then re-open the case -- has more twists, turns and conspiracy theories than any of Stieg Larsson's best-sellers.

True, one of Assange's accusers sounds tailor-made for those who think Assange is being set up in Sweden by dark CIA-backed operatives who want him smeared or silenced for his document dumping with WikiLeaks. She's a 31-year-old blond academic and member of the Social Democratic Party who's known for her radical feminist views, once wrote a treatise on how to take revenge against men and was once thrown out of Cuba for subversive activities.

But others say Assange, who denies any wrongdoing and says the sex was consensual, may have just run afoul of Sweden's unusual rape laws, which are considered pro-feminist because of the consideration given issues of consent when it comes to sexual activity -- including even the issue of whether a condom was used.

In fact, the current prosecutor, Marianne Ny, who re-opened the case against Assange, has been active in the proposed reforms of Swedish rape laws that would, if passed, involve an investigation of whether an imbalance in power between two people could void one person's insistence that the sex was consensual.

Swedish tabloids and the country's blogosphere have been rife since August with stories and speculation about Assange's accusers, the flip-flopping prosecutors and just what, if any, crime was committed by Assange during sex with the two women.

"He's innocent, that I can tell you," Bjorn Hurtig, Assange's Stockholm-based lawyer, told AOL News today. Hurtig later issued a statement saying the international arrest warrant for Assange is based on "exaggerated grounds."

Assange arrived in Sweden on Aug. 11 to speak at a weekend seminar sponsored by the Social Democratic Party and arranged to stay at a Stockholm apartment belonging to the event organizer, a member of the branch of the party who would become one of Assange's two accusers.

According to a police report obtained by the Daily Mail in August, she and Assange had sex, and at some point the condom broke. While she was apparently not happy about the condom breaking, the two were seen the next day at the seminar, and nothing appeared amiss.

Another woman at the seminar, a 27-year-old art photographer, said in her police statement that she'd come to hear Assange's lecture because of her fascination with him and his work. She can be seen in video footage on the Internet sitting in the front row during Assange's lecture, wearing a pink sweater and snapping pictures of him.

According to the police report, the woman managed to get an invitation to go out for lunch with Assange and his entourage after the seminar. They spent time together before he went back to stay at the event organizer's apartment.

Two days later, on Aug. 16, they reconnected by phone and the woman invited him to her apartment, more than 40 miles outside Stockholm. She paid for the ticket since Assange apparently had no cash and doesn't like to use credit cards because they could be traced.

She complained in her police statement that during the train ride to her hometown, "he paid more attention to his computer rather than me." She also said that by the time they arrived at her apartment, "the passion and excitement seemed to have disappeared."

The woman and Assange also reportedly had sex. According to the Daily Mail account, Assange did not use a condom at least one time during their sexual activity. The New York Times today quoted accounts given by the women to police and friends as saying Assange "did not comply with her appeals to stop when (the condom) was no longer in use."

According to the Swedish tabloid Aftonbladet, the photographer contacted the other woman two days after her assignation with Assange, and the two apparently had a conversation in which it became clear they had both had sex with Assange. The photographer was worried about having had unprotected sex and decided she wanted to go to the police.

The other woman accompanied her to the police station on Aug. 20 just to support her but then told the investigating officer on duty that she, too, had had sex with Assange, Aftonbladet reported.

Based on what was said to police, the on-call prosecutor, Marie Kjellstrand, decided to issue an arrest warrant on charges of rape and molestation, and the next day the story hit the Swedish paper Expressen and newspapers all over the world.

Kjellstrand's decision was overruled the following day by a higher-level prosecutor, Eva Finne, who withdrew the arrest warrant and said she did not see any evidence for rape allegations.

Then, on Sept. 1, a third prosecutor, Ny, re-opened the rape investigation, implying that she had new information in the case.

On Nov. 18, Swedish judicial officials approved a prosecutorial request that Assange be detained for questioning for alleged sex crimes, and on Nov. 30 Interpol issued a "red notice" against Assange for alleged sex crimes in Sweden. Despite what has happened, the woman who organized the event and had Assange stay at her apartment told Aftonbladet that she never intended that Assange be charged with rape.

Sponsored Links"It is quite wrong that we were afraid of him. He is not violent, and I do not feel threatened by him," she told the newspaper in an interview that did not identify her by name. "The responsibility for what happened to me and the other girl lies with a man who had attitude problems with women."

When the second accuser was reached on her mobile phone today by AOL News, she said simply, "I have nothing to say on the matter."

Stephens, Assange's lawyer, said that even though British police know Assange's whereabouts -- reportedly in southeastern England -- they have not yet arrested him because of the inadequacy of the arrest warrants issued by Sweden.

"The Swedes couldn't even produce another warrant today that was valid," Stephens told AOL News. "The police here sent it back."

http://www.aolnews.c...-probe/19741444




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