62 replies to this topic

[TAP]

Likely one of the issues I agree with Flagg on more or less. I know we discussed this in some thread somewhere, but here's it's own thread.
http://www.guardian....alism-coalition

[freedom78]

Likely one of the issues I agree with Flagg on more or less. I know we discussed this in some thread somewhere, but here's it's own thread.
http://www.guardian....alism-coalition

I'm sure I missed this, but which side do you come down on?

[Timothy]

We should all just keep fucking till were all the same color ect.

[TAP]

Likely one of the issues I agree with Flagg on more or less. I know we discussed this in some thread somewhere, but here's it's own thread.
http://www.guardian....alism-coalition

I'm sure I missed this, but which side do you come down on?

I'm against it OK, that's my GOP approved binary answer. My wishy washy liberal answer - I don't think parallel cultures with different rules are healthy for society, like people who come to NYC, and never/rarely leave a square mile area or learn any English in their life - clone their previous life but with more money and less oppression. It's not good for the subsequent generations who struggle to have an identity - seen that here and in the UK. I certainly don't think all behavior should be tolerated because of religion/tradition etc - and while there are laws to deal with such things, it's hard to enforce them if it's staying inside a closed environment.
I certainly don't think people should give up their culture, I'd much prefer to live in New York or London or any big city with multiple influences than blandola whitebread Indiana for example (I've lived in Illinois and Ohio so I'm guessing Indiana isn't much different.)

[freedom78]

If Star Trek has taught us anything, the entire point of finding that life on other planets is to have weird sex.

[Mr. Roboto]

Anybody see that episode of Oprah years ago where they separate the audience based on eye color and treat one set much worse than the other, then berate them later? It took a while for the peeps to figure out what was going on, although some actually began to jump on the band wagon while it was happening.

[TAP]

Anybody see that episode of Oprah years ago where they separate the audience based on eye color and treat one set much worse than the other, then berate them later? It took a while for the peeps to figure out what was going on, although some actually began to jump on the band wagon while it was happening.

http://en.wikipedia....ison_experiment
http://en.wikipedia....gram_experiment

[Zimbochick]

Anybody see that episode of Oprah years ago where they separate the audience based on eye color and treat one set much worse than the other, then berate them later? It took a while for the peeps to figure out what was going on, although some actually began to jump on the band wagon while it was happening.

That was based on Jane Elliott's blue eye/brown eye experiment. Fascinating stuff.

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Jane_Elliott

http://www.pbs.org/w.../shows/divided/

[PERM BANNED]

Multiculturalism doesn't work. On a macro scale, just compare the differences between the United states and any middle eastern nation. All this rioting in Egypt has the left chanting for democracy there. But as was shown on Bill Maher last Friday, 80% of people there support the death penalty for leaving Islam. Is that the kind of people you want deciding on a constitution and using the democratic process? Such dramatic beliefs are in stark contrast to the ideals and beliefs of your typical American. The worst you 'll find from some far right evangelical in America is the beleif if you leave Christ, you'll be damned to eternity in hell. You won't find them advocating you be stoned. Culture by its very definition is a set of customs and beliefs held by the people of an area. The problem is that people want to expand the simple notion of a European enjoying chinese architecture or arab cuisine, to it's okay if people who view certain sexes as submissive to others and people of a certain religion being our god sworn enemies to be part of our community. If you haven't seen last week's Maher, torrent it or get it of HBO on demand. I think it was an excellent segment that highlights the intellectual debate quite well. Maher persistently tried to discuss with this Egyptian reporter the danger of over 65% of the country supporting Sharia law, stoning for adultery and death for those who leave Islam and she continued to evade the question rather focusing on the supposed call for democracy and how wonderful that is. But giving democracy to people who will install laws that prohibit the democratic process (meaning entailing the vast differences in opinion) doesn't really mesh well with western ideals. Many people think if they throw out the "America wiped out the Indians, so we stole them of the rightful culture and owner status of North America" card they've somehow won the debate. The problem is that every human being on Earth migrated from one place of origin. Even the bible thumpers have to accept that 6,000 years ago Adam and Eve left the mystical garden of Eden and their offspring spread across the globe. To those scientifically minded, we originated probably out of Africa. So called Native Americans coming to America is no different than any other nomad who eventually settled on the other five continents of the earth. And war and conflict are natural and in the case of war, legal means to acquire territory. No nation on earth can claim it has always possesed some arbitrary portion of land for all time. America was settled and conquered by Europeans several hunderd years ago. The default culture of America is one of western origins. I can't tell by looking at your average american of european descent, what particular country their ancestors came from. And even in the rare event you find someone who claims to cling to some european title, normally Italian, their ancestral line is so interwoven and spread out, the only people who would consider them italian are other wannabes. Only in America do the hispanic and and specifically arab immigrants cling to private communities and expect special treatment. When asians come to America, they don't evade all contact with the outside world. If anything, asians go the extra step to try and assimilate. I know plent of Chinese people with English first names attempting to embrace the western culture. They certainly don't expect our public schools to conduct classes in chinese or alter the environment to accomodate them. Can that be said about the more prevalent immigrants coming now? Europe is finally stepping up and taking action to stop the growing numbers of Islamic followers who have no interest in becoming part of the local culture, but simply expect their new host nation to adapt to them. While I personally don't agree with the banning of some religious garments as that is a legal form of self expression, I also support many US states that refuse to allow Muslim women to take government photos in a Burka. There comes a point when you realize that some people and their beliefs aren't compaible with society. When the same people isolate themselves and refuse to contribute to the host nation that is giving them the ability to practice their newfound economic freedoms, we have a problem. It's bad enough that a significant portion of American citizens feel entitled to a quality of life without putting forth any effort, it's a whole other thing when non-americans come here expecting the same handout. I'm really hoping that this nation enforces some stronger immigration reform. Altering the 14th Amendment's interpretation of natural born citizens is a great step. For all that talk about immigration, those most strongly opposed forget that their european and african ancestors came here under legal guidelines. The dynamics and methods which we condone and support entry into this nation have changed, and so should the means in which we allow admitance. It was never the intent of the authors for people who enter here illegally to simply drop a child on american soil and enjoy newfound citizenship right away. I would end this anchor baby shit right now by telling the parents they can either leave with their child to their original nation, and the child alone may re-enter when they are 18 or they can forfeit their child over to the state and the child will be place in an orphanage. Either way, mommy and daddy are going south until they can apply for the same paperwork millions of others do each year. If nations make it unattractive and difficult for people who refuse to adapt to enter the nation, it becomes a whole lot easier to mitigate the dangers of radically different and divisive cultures coming head to head with the expected norm.

[TAP]

For all that talk about immigration, those most strongly opposed forget that their european and african ancestors came here under legal guidelines.

Not sure that's a terribly strong argument....

[PERM BANNED]

I'm not condoning slavery. I'm simply illustrating that black people came to america via a legal system of that era (namely some authority in their host nation selling them to slave traders). The 14th Amendment was written so that they would be considered citizens. Not 3/5ths a person, but bonafide 100% of an american citizen.

[TAP]

Got notification that my citizenship interview is scheduled (though not the date yet). You'll be the first to hear the good news......well among the first anyway

[PERM BANNED]

And I assume you won't be isolating yourself in a neighbor hood only for "English-Americans" (is there even such a thing ) or demanding we all hail the queen. Most importantly, you more than likely have a job with decent income derived from a skill that contributed to the government. Above all else, you did it the legal way. People from Britain posing a threat to America hasn't been a problem since 1812. Regardless of my poor jokes, congratulations.

[Zimbochick]

So I am curious. If you are against multiculturism, then what exactly is the alternative? Limiting immigration to a homogenous group? Limiting immigration to non-Muslims? Preventing immigration altogether? It's all well and good to say nay, but what does that actually mean.