80 replies to this topic

[TAP]

It's crazy on a spectrum not crazy out of nowhere.

[PERM BANNED]

It won't stand up in court.

[freedom78]

Randall, Late term abortions are never easy emotionally or normally done without a compelling reason like the fetus doesn't have a brain or is missing bones in its limbs, etc. etc, or the woman's health is compromised so badly that her life is in danger. Not all women know they are carrying by their 2nd or 3rd month, especially if there is something wrong with the fetus. Late term abortions absolutely needs to stay on the table. Not as a form of birth control but used to circumvent tragic situations.

As for your being charged for a double homicide argument if you kill a pregnant woman. That's just another Pro-LIfer generated tactic, trying to chip away at Pro-Choice rights by trying to establish person-hood of a fetus earlier or earlier. So it holds no weigh with me. I'd like to see those kinds of charges disappear off the books as quickly as it came into being in the past 10 or 15 years.

Guys want a say in whether or not a woman gets an abortion? Fine. Then give married women the right to tell their husbands to get his nuts cut if she doesn't want anymore kids. It makes about as much sense as a guy having the right to tell a women to abort or not. Rights to your nuts is a fair trade off to rights to my womb. What you're forgetting is that when guys screw around they've already made a decision that could end up creating a baby. At that point it shouldn't come as a big surprise if they end up sharing support for a child for the next 18 years. If they don't want to take that change then they have a choice of getting themselves fixed before they screw around or keeping their penis in their own pants. No one is holding a gun to a man's head and saying go forth and screw every woman who will let you. Granted, your choice comes several months before a woman's choice but it's no less important.

I'm not arguing against abortion in any case for medical reasons. My argument was and still is I find it very hard to believe that a woman could be that far along and not have known for a while she was carrying a child. Morning sickness, weight gain and lack of a menstrual cycle are pretty obvious symptoms. I'm not saying that it should be limited at this point, merely that it is something to consider and I would personally weigh moral judgement on someone who waited to this point to have the abortion - assuming nothing abnormal occured.

I'm not saying a man has a right to tell a woman to keep a child or get rid of it. My argument rests on that it takes two equal partners to conceive a child. Now, the people who claim "it's my body" want total control over a future life that will ultimately affect all 3 people involved. While I would not condone any law that allowed the man to force the woman one way or the other, I think some consideration should be given to a man being legally removed from responsibility if he desires the child to be aborted and the woman does not. Outside of marriage, why should the man be required to pay income to a woman for 18 years if the decision to have a child is entirely her choice? If we removed abortion, you would say it was unfair to force women to have children. Can't the logic be applied to woman who either for personal or financial reasons, use the birth of a child to force some sort of obligation from their partner?

If you want to use the "it's my body argument" then no one else should be responsible for what you choose to do with "your body." by using that line of logic, you are inherently placing all responsibility on yourself for YOUR decision. That's my point. Adamanat supporters hide under the mask of individual choice, but ultimatley expect someone else to suffer for their choice.

I'm not saying one way or the other. It's a very complicated issue philosophically speaking, but quite clear legally. Legally, we have the answer and that won't change soon. But as this is a message forum and all of us saying "yep, it's the law" would be rather boring, a deeper examination of the theme and connected principles are required.

Some of this has been a part of my problem with abortion. A woman can keep it, and a man is forced to pay (I have no problem with that part), but a man can want to keep it while a woman goes all Mrs. Corleone and has it aborted. I can't imagine how much that would hurt, if someone did that against your wishes (umm...assuming you're not a mafioso).

[freedom78]

Some of this has been a part of my problem with abortion. A woman can keep it, and a man is forced to pay (I have no problem with that part), but a man can want to keep it while a woman goes all Mrs. Corleone and has it aborted. I can't imagine how much that would hurt, if someone did that against your wishes (umm...assuming you're not a mafioso).

I agree with you that it must be very painful for a guy who wants to keep a pregnancy but gets over ruled by his wife or girlfriend. No one is denying that. But I firmly believe that for every guy like that there is a woman in a similar situation....one who is being coerced by parents, a boyfriend or husband into getting an abortion she don't want. Life often comes with regrets and 'what ifs', no way around.

I absolutely do NOT believe someone should be coerced into terminating a pregnancy...that's just an awful thing to do. If someone really isn't prepared for being a parent, there are thousands of people wanting to adopt babies.

It's all a very tough issue, because of course the women do bear the burden of carrying a child for 9 months, whether they keep it or give it up for adoption or whatever. And I'm sure that the number of women getting abortions against the express wishes of the father are a minority. I have no numbers --- don't really know if they exist --- but I'm sure that fathers who support the decision, don't care, or are out of the picture are far more common. But, for those who would like to raise that child (even as a single parent getting monetary support from the mother), it's got to be brutal. As a man, it's just one of those possibilities that has always sat uneasy with me. Makes me glad I have a good marriage (and am not in the mob).

[freedom78]

Can't find anything to disagree with in your post, Freedom except maybe that I get the impress that you (and many others) think it's only single women getting abortions. Lots of couple make that decision for their family together and the guys are right there to support their spouse during the procedure.

No, I don't think that. I"ve not looked into the numbers on abortion...it's just not one of the issues I get too worked up about. So I don't really make any assumptions about who is getting them. Stereotypes are stereotypes. Most have some basis in reality, but there are always exceptions and sometimes those exceptions are far more common than the stereotype would have you believe.

[Hula]

http://motherjones.c...penalty-georgia

That's just another crazy person engaging in crazy talk. There's no way that would go through so they just look like idiots right now.

The problem is that too many women in the child bearing ages have gotten complicate about their rights while at the same time the right-to-lifers have gotten more determined in slashing away those rights. Ya, it's crazy talk but sometimes crazy talk is taken seriously.

this is exactly right!

[TAP]

[wedjat]

haha, truer words never spoken.

[Zimbochick]

http://www.kansascit...-suspended.html

A Kansas disciplinary panel today recommended that former Kansas Attorney General Phill Kline be indefinitely suspended from practicing law because of ethics misconduct in his hot pursuit of abortion clinics.

[Mr. Roboto]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl4b46f0Yq8[/url]

[Zimbochick]

Michigan just banned partial birth abortions unless the mother's life is in danger.

As I understand it, that's not the same as late-term abortion. What is ridiculous about this bill is that partial birth abortion is already banned on a federal level, and there have been no reported cases since that was implemented in 2003. Talk about a waste of time and money. You'd think they'd have more pressing legislature to deal with.

http://www.huffingto...n_n_982096.html

http://www.npr.org/t...storyId=5168163