81 replies to this topic

[artcinco]

Fighting Terror with Stupidity


#iThing #word

[freedom78]

President Trump's Muslim ban excludes countries linked to his sprawling business empire

BY Chris Sommerfeldt

NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

Updated: Saturday, January 28, 2017, 11:10 PM

President Trump’s most recent executive order effectively bans citizens of seven Muslim-majority countries from entering the U.S. for at least 90 days — but some Muslim countries were spared from the order's blacklist, even though they have deep-seated ties to terrorism.

 

Conspicuously, Trump doesn't hold any business interests in any of the countries on the list, but holds major stakes in several of those excluded from it, records show.

Friday’s executive order, signed at the Pentagon, suspends the issuing of U.S. visas or travel permits to people from Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen.

Not a single American was killed on U.S. soil by citizens from any of those countries between 1975 and 2015, according to statistics tallied by the conservative-leaning Cato Institute.

 

However, the same set of statistics show that nearly 3,000 Americans were killed by citizens from Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Egypt in the same time period — with the bulk of those killed being victims of the 9/11 attacks. Yet, people from those three countries are still welcome to apply for U.S. visas and travel permits.

 

In a striking parallel, Trump’s sprawling business empire — which he has refused to rescind ownership of — holds multi-million dollar licensing and development deals in all of those countries, raising potential conflict of interest concerns and alarming questions over what actually went into the decision process behind Friday’s executive order.

 

SAUDI ARABIA

Not much is known about Trump’s connection to the Saudis. Yet, the little bit of information that is available raises a number of questions.

 

Trump registered eight companies tied to hotel interests in the country shortly after launching his campaign in August 2015, according to The Washington Post. The companies were registered under such names as THC Jeddah Hotel and DT Jeddah Technical Services; company names The Post reported bore striking resemblance to ones Trump has registered in other foreign countries.

 

During a campaign rally in Alabama last year, Trump expressed his admiration for the Saudis.

“They buy apartment from me,” he said. “They spend $40 million, $50 million. Am I supposed to dislike them? I like them very much.”

Those comments could cock a few eyebrows, since most of the 9/11 attackers were from Saudi Arabia.

 

Further, a declassified U.S. intelligence report known as the “28 pages” claims the Saudi government and its wealthy citizens actively funded Muslim radicalism through mosques and charities in the U.S. around the time of 9/11 attacks. The 19 hijackers were in close contact with Saudi nationals before carrying out the terror attack, which became the worst one in U.S. history.

 

In total, Saudi citizens killed 2,369 Americans between 1975 and 2015, according to CATO.

 

EGYPT

In Egypt, Trump’s business holdings are characteristically vague. His latest Federal Election Commission filing lists two companies in the country, Trump Marks Egypt and Trump Marks Egypt LLC, both of which are most likely connected to a development venture.

 

The State Department, meanwhile, strongly discourages Americans from traveling to Egypt since “terrorist attacks can occur anywhere” due to the presence of ISIS-affiliated groups.

Egyptian citizens killed a total of 162 Americans between 1975 and 2015.

 

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES

 

The Trump Organization has a licensing and management deal in Dubai for two golf courses and a whole neighborhood of luxury villas currently under construction. The second golf course was designed by Tiger Woods.

 

Trump has traveled frequently to the Middle Eastern nation with his daughter, Ivanka, and the two have been seen in numerous photographs over the years, playing golf and shaking hands with affluent sheiks.

 

While the UAE ranks as the sixth richest country in the world, a widespread presence of ISIS- and Al Qaeda- affiliated groups persists in the area and poses a serious threat to American citizens, according to the State Department.

 

“Both historical and current information suggest that the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), al-Qaida, and affiliated organizations continue to plan attacks against Western targets,” states a safety notice on the department’s website, using alternate spellings for the groups.

 

A total of 314 Americans were killed by UAE citizens between 1975 and 2015, according to CATO.

 

TURKEY

Trump also currently licenses his name to two luxury towers in the Turkish metropolis of Istanbul.

 

He received as much as $5 million from the deals last year, according to his latest financial disclosures. Furthermore, since the election, Trump’s development partner, Dogan Sirketler Grubu Holding, has seen its shares surge by nearly 11%.

Meanwhile, Turkey is a hotbed for terrorist activities, with the State Department issuing a travel alert advising U.S. citizens not to travel to the country because of “increased threats from terrorist groups” just this Wednesday.

 

“An increase in anti-American rhetoric has the potential to inspire independent actors to carry out acts of violence against U.S. citizens,” the alert states.

 

In addition to Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Egypt and the United Arab Emirates, President Trump holds extensive business interests in the Muslim majority nations of Indonesia and Azerbaijan. Both have documented ties to Islamic terrorism — yet neither is included on the executive order's blacklist.

 

White House press aides did not immediately return a request for comment from The News.

 

Immediately after the Pentagon signing ceremony on Friday, Trump was harshly rebuked by people of varying political persuasions from across the world.

 

Democratic Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer said “tears are running down the cheeks of the Statue of Liberty tonight” upon learning of the order.

 

“This is one of the most backward and nasty executive orders that the President has issued,” he added.

 

Trita Parsi, the co-founder and president of the National Iranian American Council, told The News early Saturday that he’s been bombarded with phone calls from concerned friends and family in his home country.

“This has been a nightmare,” he said. “We knew something was coming, but we did not expect this…We definitely did not expect this.”

 

Trump, meanwhile, claimed before signing the order that the “new vetting measures” will make it much harder for terrorists to enter the country.

“We don’t want them here,” he said. “We only want to admit those into our country who will support our country and love deeply our people.”

[Adolf Hitler]

 

 

Democratic Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer said “tears are running down the cheeks of the Statue of Liberty tonight” upon learning of the order.

Please....

 

 

Let's say Trump placed all these countries on his list. Would it stop all the bitching or would the same people keep bitching?

 

It's gonna be a long eight years....

[freedom78]

Let's say Trump placed all these countries on his list. Would it stop all the bitching or would the same people keep bitching?

 

It's one thing to note the general wrongness or stupidity of the policy and another to note its hypocrisy.  While I generally think this is a bad idea, if you're going to do so you shouldn't leave off the country that exports the most terrorists or has caused the most US deaths, especially in the name of profit.

 

It's gonna be a long eight four years....

[PERM BANNED]

y 

[Mr. Roboto]

Trump won't make it four years. Not after starting off like this. No way. 

[Mr. Roboto]

What candidate do you think the DNC is going to run that is going to bring white, blue collar workers back to the party? Telling white people to shut up and check their privilege isn't going to do your party any favors. Seriously, what candidate do you think the Democratic party can get behind? Half the country is firmly behind Trump and the other half couldn't agree what topping should be on a pizza.

 

You act like he won by a landslide...give me a break. 

[Adolf Hitler]

He's definitely a two term prez as long as he lives that long. He's not a spring chicken.

 

He filed the paperwork for reelection five hours after taking the oath....a first.

 

Ivanka 2024!

 

 

 

It's one thing to note the general wrongness or stupidity of the policy and another to note its hypocrisy.  While I generally think this is a bad idea, if you're going to do so you shouldn't leave off the country that exports the most terrorists or has caused the most US deaths, especially in the name of profit.

Are you suggesting we place Saudi Arabia on the ban list? I've always wanted to pay 20 bucks a gallon for gas....

 

Then take into account our military presence there. Everyone should know countries like Saudi Arabia and Turkey(a NATO ally) will never be on such a list and it has nothing to do with Trump's business. It's obvious why and I hate how the media thinks we're all dopes.

 

The media needs to cool its jets. THis constant obsession with everything Trump does and the incessant hate is going to backfire. Pretty soon his 3 am farts are going to be breaking news and there will be protests over the velocity of those farts.

[freedom78]

What candidate do you think the DNC is going to run that is going to bring white, blue collar workers back to the party? Telling white people to shut up and check their privilege isn't going to do your party any favors. Seriously, what candidate do you think the Democratic party can get behind? Half the country is firmly behind Trump and the other half couldn't agree what topping should be on a pizza.

 

I'm not sure how you went from my critique of Trump's Muslim ban to asking which Democrat can appeal to working class whites, four years from now.  While it's interesting, it is neither what I was talking about nor the subject of this particular thread.  That said, Trump didn't exactly walk away with this election.  Hell, he didn't even win the most votes.  Four years is a long time to see both who can pop up in Democratic politics (no one was really thinking Obama presidency in 2004) and how Trump will work with the traditional GOP.  He'll win their hearts by waging a war on brown people and running up massive deficts with tax cuts, but he'll lose their minds by attacking trade and hurting corporate profits.  Where the balance of all that lands is yet to be determined.

 

 

Are you suggesting we place Saudi Arabia on the ban list? I've always wanted to pay 20 bucks a gallon for gas....

 

Then take into account our military presence there. Everyone should know countries like Saudi Arabia and Turkey(a NATO ally) will never be on such a list and it has nothing to do with Trump's business. It's obvious why and I hate how the media thinks we're all dopes.

 

The media needs to cool its jets. THis constant obsession with everything Trump does and the incessant hate is going to backfire. Pretty soon his 3 am farts are going to be breaking news and there will be protests over the velocity of those farts.

 

No, I would suggest that we don't have a ban list as simple minded as focusing entirely on national borders.  It's the stupidest form of policing I've ever seen.  My point, simply, was that if you're going to do it you might as well actually target the states that have exported terror to the US, most notably Saudi Arabia.  The House of Saud made its deal with the devil long ago when they agreed to tolerate radical Wahhabists within the kingdom in return for the support of that group in maintaining their rule.  While I can accept that 18th century Saudi rulers could not have known that this ideology would spawn groups such as Al Qaeda and ISIS, it's telling that we apply so little pressure to the Saudis today.  At some point a choice will have to be made.  The Saudis will have to break with Wahhabism or we will have to break with the Saudis.  The right is so concerned that we call something radical islamic terror...well, that's where it comes from. 

 

I notice you didn't mention the Emirates, where our strategic interests aren't as large, we don't have NATO ties, and Trump's business interests are large.  But no, nothing untoward going on here.  It's not like we have a President with unprecedented connections to business interests or anything.

 

By the way, what makes you think the incessant hate will backfire?  Trump's whole campaign was incessant hate and he won. 

[Adolf Hitler]

Because the public is going to tire of it quickly. When people realize the sky isn't falling they're going to be ready to move on.

[PERM BANNED]

y 

[freedom78]

The Democratic party has been void of ideas for the past decade.

 

Sorry to further abuse our terrorism thread with talk about US party politics, but this strikes me as the exact opposite of what we've seen.  We had eight years of a Democratic presidency and those eight years were the GOP having NO substantive ideas except to oppose Obama's.  You may not like the ideas and some of them may have been around for a while, but to suggest that the Dems offered nothing and to ignore the complete lack of policy coming out of the GOP is dishonest.

 

OK...back to terror.

[PERM BANNED]

y

[Its Cousin]

What candidate do you think the DNC is going to run that is going to bring white, blue collar workers back to the party?

Al Franken?

[freedom78]

Trump banned immigration from 7 countries that are terrorist hot spots for 90 days. Despite that 85% of Muslims were unaffected, the media and left portrayed it as a Muslim ban. American politics are up for debate because terrorism is now political.

I'm very interested to see how SCOTUS handles this, especially since the left wing side of the court thought the President had the authority to bestow legal status to illegal immigrants. If he has the power to say who gets to stay, isn't it inherent in that argument he also has the power to say who doesn't get to stay?

 

He called for a Muslim ban and sought advice about how to do so in a way that wouldn't be overruled as Constitutional.  The fact that he wants to protect minorities in Muslim majority countries is telling.  Does he also want to protect Muslim minorities in countries where they're persecuted?  I doubt it.  It's also horribly ignorant to lump all the different sects of Islam together, but I suppose no one accused him of being well intentioned and thoughtful.

 

RE: SCOTUS...the right has argued that the Constitution gives the power to regulate commerce but not to mandate commerce.  Seems to me that your logic should apply here, if it applies elsewhere.  Surely if the Congress can ban the buying of something they can also mandate it, right?