1635 replies to this topic

[freedom78]

I'm not yet convinced that accepting politically useful information from a foreign power would constitute a crime.  It's certainly not good and perhaps we need to better legislate this area of election law.  But it doesn't strike me as the level of coordination needed to make a conspiracy charge.  Think of it like drugs...is this an illegal drug and accepting it constitutes a crime, no matter what?  Or is it a legal prescription drug, meaning that you can get it legally (from a domestic source) but not illegally (from a foreign power)...or is it just tylenol and you can get it anywhere.  The Russian government went above and beyond the distribution of information to the Trump campaign...that's not at issue.  What is is whether there was sufficient coordination between that campaign or its people and a foreign power to constitute conspiracy to commit crimes in our electoral system.  If the Trump campaign encouraged them or coordinated with them, then yes.  If they knew something was going to happen and didn't report it, then yes.  But just taking info?  I don't think so.

 

Obstruction is a far more likely charge to come out of all of this and there's a lot more evidence of it.

[TAP]

I'm not yet convinced that accepting politically useful information from a foreign power would constitute a crime.  It's certainly not good and perhaps we need to better legislate this area of election law.  But it doesn't strike me as the level of coordination needed to make a conspiracy charge.  Think of it like drugs...is this an illegal drug and accepting it constitutes a crime, no matter what?  Or is it a legal prescription drug, meaning that you can get it legally (from a domestic source) but not illegally (from a foreign power)...or is it just tylenol and you can get it anywhere.  The Russian government went above and beyond the distribution of information to the Trump campaign...that's not at issue.  What is is whether there was sufficient coordination between that campaign or its people and a foreign power to constitute conspiracy to commit crimes in our electoral system.  If the Trump campaign encouraged them or coordinated with them, then yes.  If they knew something was going to happen and didn't report it, then yes.  But just taking info?  I don't think so.

 

Obstruction is a far more likely charge to come out of all of this and there's a lot more evidence of it.

 

Isn't the point that the Russian government stole information from one candidate and gave it to the other, how knew it had been stolen.

[TAP]

If there's no underlying crime, why did Flynn take a plea deal?

[freedom78]

Isn't the point that the Russian government stole information from one candidate and gave it to the other, how knew it had been stolen.

 

Yes, if it can be demonstrated that they knowingly accepted stolen information.  Is it clear that it can?  We'll see, I guess.

 

If there's no underlying crime, why did Flynn take a plea deal?

 

I think a better question would be "why did Flynn lie".  I assume he took the plea deal because he was caught obstructing and wanted to protect his kid.

[TAP]

My overall feeling is this. Given the enormous amount of Trump/Russia ties which are public domain plus the greed, narcissism, debt and stupidity of Trump and many around him plus the ruthlessness and greed and powerlust of Putin and his Oligarchs and the Russian mob....I don't really believe there's any chance these people all stopped on the borderline of legality, I mean....come on. What can be proved? Well that' goes back to the stupidity of Trump and the ruthlessness of Putin. The latter seems quite content for the former to keep demonstrating links and mutual interest, Putin wants chaos ultimately. Anyway we will see, but there is so much 'there' there just that we know of, Mueller has had a year to build on an existing investigation. I predict almost all of the Steele dossier will be true (except the pee tape will be far worse.)

[freedom78]

Stupidity does seem the name of the game with these guys.  It has the feel of a mafia thing, where the boss manages to remain distant enough to avoid trouble...but Trump's way dumber than that.

[Mr. Roboto]

I suspect he's always had enough money that being dumb and sloppy didn't necessarily have serious consequences. Even now we're almost at two years and nothing has really happened to him...yet. 

[Mr. Roboto]

Omarosa taped Trump too? haha, jeez

[Its Cousin]

I'm not yet convinced that accepting politically useful information from a foreign power would constitute a crime. 

 

In June of 2016, upper-echelons in the Trump organization held meetings with an agent working on behalf of Russian military intelligence. The following month Trump publicly called for hacking of Clinton's emails. Shortly thereafter, the GRU did just that.

 

Sounds like a conspiracy to engage in illegal activity, to me. Let a jury of his peers sort it out.

[Mr. Roboto]

Big time ^^

[freedom78]

As long as they knew of the connections to Russian government.

[Its Cousin]

^^ I think the crime is conspiring to obtain the information; not who the players were-- that's just the icing on the cake.

[freedom78]

Could be, just depends on what people knew. 

[Its Cousin]

Never forget that terrible day.

 

[freedom78]

It took me a moment to recall why I had heard of the Bowling Green Massacre but knew none of it's details.