806 replies to this topic

[AxlsMainMan]

Yeah, who cares if people are dying of preventable illnesses and from things that could have been fixed with basic surgery. As long as I have what I need, fuck everyone else.

[Macker]

^^Yes exactly It's thinning the herd!

[freedom78]

By John R. Lott, Jr.

Without quoting the entire article, there are a few things I'd point out. First, "satisfied with care" is vastly different than satisfied with the system or with the costs. I wouldn't argue that we have bad doctors or anything like that...indeed, just the opposite is true.

But let's take a run of the mill, curable cancer patient. Now, start with an "easy" surgery ($20,000 for doc fees, surgery room rental, the anesthesiologist, etc.) and follow that up with a couple cycles of chemo ($10,000 for fees, loads of drug costs, etc.) and a few follow up CT scans and XRays (another $10,000). Ok...so we're talking $40,000, without getting into five years of checkups, which also include things like CT, Xray, MRI, more doc fees, etc. Now, let's say that person has a good experience. S/he heals well, survives, recovers, and was well treated by the staff and doctors. That person would be very satisfied with the care s/he received. But that satisfaction is completely independent of the costs.

Now, those pesky costs. If that person has an 80/20 plan with no copay, then the portion of the bill is about $8K. But wait!...there's more. Because insurance can usually negotiate a price around 50% of what is originally charged, they knock it down to $20K, with the patients portion being $4K.

Four thousand dollars is a lot of money for most people, and that's for the person lucky enough to have decent insurance (that doesn't fuck around with paying and shit like that!). Now, that other poor shmo has a $40,000 bill, that cannot possibly be paid. S/he survived and got excellent care. But it comes with bankruptcy, sadly, and many of those costs will be passed along to everyone else in the form of higher fees and higher insurance rates.

Add to that the willingness of insurance to fuck people over to boost their own bottom lines (and Lord knows how many of those stories are out there), and you have a system that, in terms of the money, is NOT serving the uninsured and often not serving those who ARE insured.

The average healthcare debt of those who file for bankruptcy is $12,000, and health costs were responsible or partly responsible for 50% of bankruptcies in this country.

I realize of course that I'm not going to sway you from your position. You seem fairly libertarian, so you likely believe gov't has no role here...fair enough. But that article is trying to dispel the myths of bad American healthcare, with a big bait and switch. It's not the quality of the doctors, nurses, and hospitals that most people have a problem with. It's insurance, those who don't have it, the fact that when you don't have it you put off a doc visit until it's far MORE expensive, and then those costs get passed along.

[Macker]

Honestly, I would guess the percentage of people who fail to go to the doctor with or w/o health insurance isn't all that different. Either with insurance or w/o people tend not to go to the doctor regularly, even with symptoms. Especially the dentist. No one wants to go.

[Macker]

I remember when NYC was in contractual disputes with the Sanitation, Fire and Police Departments, they did do a study on health care. They did say that out of all city agencies these 3 used Emergency Rooms far less then any other union or uninsured group. Especially those with children. Urban areas used the E.R.'s far greater then suburban areas E.R.'s, although that was increasing. Often many people who needed E.R. care didn't want to go and waited to go to a private doctor because of the long wait times. Sometimes this caused bigger problems or death. The most common E.R. visit unfortunately was the common cold.

[Mr. Roboto]

Looks like we are getting close.

[Mr. Roboto]

Obama Pokes Fun At 'Don't Touch My Medicare' People

http://www.talkingpo...care-people.php

[Mr. Roboto]

Got my emergency room bill for five hours....6400 and change. Insurance bill was 1600 and change, my co pay was 75 bucks. NOW, if I didn't have insurance that bill would have been 6400 bucks. What average American can afford that? Also, if I had Indy insurance they would be denying the claim right now. But since it is a federal (group) plan, they just pay up. Also keeping in mind that if it were individual I'd be paying 500-900 month for coverage in the first place...and who can afford that? AND I have been unable to work since that time. Which would mean what if the insurance was through my job? Thankfully it's through my wife's.

[AxlsMainMan]

What good is the world's best doctors and technology if no one can afford access to them?

[Mr. Roboto]

That's what I always hear: "If it's so bad, then why do people come to America for health care?" A: Because they can afford it. As far an overall rating, we rank embarrassingly low.

[AxlsMainMan]

Come on Emerica, time to catch up to the rest of the Western world.

[Macker]

Well you just don't pay it because it can't be used as a negative on a credit report. Just don't give your real name....The same thing many people do.

[cousin it]

Just don't give your real name....The same thing many people do.

That is a felony in most states.

[Macker]

Do they really investigate it? I doubt it. It just goes into the medicaid spending package page 8,000, subsection 12,000, footnote X. They just factor it in, sort of like organized crime it all get's factored in to the price of items people need and buy.

[freedom78]

Do they really investigate it? I doubt it. It just goes into the medicaid spending package page 8,000, subsection 12,000, footnote X. They just factor it in, sort of like organized crime it all get's factored in to the price of items people need and buy.

And passed along to everyone else, unfortunately. But if you insure them, so that they don't wait until it's serious and get uber-expensive emergency care, that cost will be much less.