806 replies to this topic

[cousin it]

Look elsewhere for my reply.

[Mr. Roboto]

Palin says Obama's health care plan is 'evil' ANCHORAGE, Alaska – Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin called President Barack Obama's health plan "downright evil" Friday in her first online comments since leaving office, saying in a Facebook posting that he would create a "death panel" that would deny care to the neediest Americans. "Who will suffer the most when they ration care? The sick, the elderly, and the disabled, of course," the former vice Republican presidential candidate wrote on her Facebook page, which has nearly 700,000 supporters. "The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil," Palin wrote. An e-mail sent to Palin's spokeswoman to confirm authorship was not immediately returned Friday. Obama, a Democrat, campaigned on a promise of offering affordable health care to all Americans. He has proposed a system that would include government and private insurers. Republicans say that private insurers would be unable to compete, leaving the country with only a government-run health program. They warn that could leave Americans with little control over their health care. Republican criticism has included claims that the reform plans will lead to rationing, or the government determining which medical procedures a patient can have. However, millions of Americans already face rationing, as insurance companies rule on procedures they will cover. Denying coverage for certain procedures might increase under proposals to have a government-appointed agency identify medicines and procedures best suited for various conditions. In the posting, Palin encouraged her supporters to be engaged in the debate. "Nationalizing our health care system is a point of no return for government interference in the lives of its citizens. If we go down this path, there will be no turning back," Palin wrote. "Let's stop and think and make our voices heard before it's too late," the posting said. Palin resigned as Alaska governor on July 26 with nearly 18 months left in her term. She cited not only the numerous ethics complaints that had been filed against her also her wish not to be a lame duck after the first-term governor decided not to seek re-election next year. Palin, popular with conservatives in the Republican party, has said she wants to build a right-of-center coalition, and there is speculation she will seek the presidency in 2012. In the two weeks since she resigned, Palin has made only one public appearance, giving a Second Amendment rights speech last Saturday before a gun owners group in Anchorage. Palin also has been largely silent before Friday's post. She was a voracious user of the social networking site Twitter, and promised to keep her supporters updated with a new private account after she left office. But that hasn't happened, leaving some of her fans begging for updates in the past two weeks.

[freedom78]

Sorry, but I have an inner need to go through this bit by bit and to expose it as stupid:

"Who will suffer the most when they ration care? The sick, the elderly, and the disabled, of course," the former vice Republican presidential candidate wrote on her Facebook page, which has nearly 700,000 supporters.

Who suffers now, as insurers ration care? Those who are denied insurance and those whose claims are denied of course. Apparently the market can kill whomever it wants and she doesn't give a hot fuck, but the possibility (and a poor one at that) that government might do the EXACT SAME THING is evil?

Right now in the USA there are about 45-50 million uninsured people. There are millions more who are under-insured and millions more who are denied payment from the "death panel" that is the insurance industry. At WORST we get the status quo, which is a transfer of this poor excuse for a system to government. Indeed, that's not even really the worst, as healthcare is becoming more and more costly, so the problem itself will deteriorate. When you know you're at or near the bottom, it makes no sense to decry the faults of trying something else (and, in this case, decrying the made up, speculative faults, at that).

"The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil," Palin wrote.

Is this a joke? Death panel? It's amazing how the party that does so much to make real our Orwellian nightmares can preach so much against Orwellian nightmares.

On the bright side, since she's no longer working and her "level of productivity" is down, I might be amenable to these panels.

And "evil"? With some 45+ million with no insurance, how can any solution be "evil"?

Republicans say that private insurers would be unable to compete, leaving the country with only a government-run health program. They warn that could leave Americans with little control over their health care.

"Little control"? Only a vote for the ENTIRE House of Representatives every two years. Yeah...that's hardly ANY control!

Republican criticism has included claims that the reform plans will lead to rationing, or the government determining which medical procedures a patient can have. However, millions of Americans already face rationing, as insurance companies rule on procedures they will cover.

I don't get this "rationing" claim. The idea is that Democrats want to spend hundreds of billions to give everyone healthcare so that they can then deny it to them? Hell, if anything government has shown far too great a willingness to run up massive debts, where as insurance companies will deny you an aspirin to meet their bottom line. I'll trust the guy who'll give too much over the one who'll give not enough.

Denying coverage for certain procedures might increase under proposals to have a government-appointed agency identify medicines and procedures best suited for various conditions.

Yes. Repeat tests. You get an Xray. They can't figure it out. You go to a specialist. You get the same damned Xray of the same damned spot. Thus, by implementing some common sense controls, we can cut some of these costs. TA DA!

In the posting, Palin encouraged her supporters to be engaged in the debate. "Nationalizing our health care system is a point of no return for government interference in the lives of its citizens. If we go down this path, there will be no turning back," Palin wrote.

An odd idea, given that those who have insurance they like can avoid the government plan and those who don't have insurance generally approve of this plan. Doesn't seem like too many who fear government intrusion will have that much to deal with.

Palin, popular with conservatives in the Republican party, has said she wants to build a right-of-center coalition, and there is speculation she will seek the presidency in 2012. In the two weeks since she resigned, Palin has made only one public appearance, giving a Second Amendment rights speech last Saturday before a gun owners group in Anchorage.

To Republicans:

Please. Please, I beg you, do not elect this woman as your nominee. I know many Democrats/liberals think it'd be a coup, because she could be run over in the general, but she is unworthy of the process, let alone the office. You can do better. There used to be conservative intellectuals. There used to be Republicans of talent and brains and, even if I didn't agree with them, they were good people and competent. Palin is a hack. And I know we're dominated by hacks, but she's not even a smart hack. Please. Elect someone smart. A principled libertarian who has, you know, read a book. Whatever. Just not her. She is the worst kind of fool.

[Mr. Roboto]

This is the biggest part of the "Argument" I have a problem with....how is it government intrusion if you are not taking part in it? It's simple, if you have insurance, then don't worry about the government option. The other problem I have is the sheer hypocrisy. The same group of people who think it's perfectly fine to regulate who marries who and essentially runs on an anti-gay platform, cries about government intrusion in the next breath. I agree 100%, the GOP needs somebody of substance to turn the ship around. I call names and show my ass a lot, but in all honesty she's a fucking idiot.

[LISA]

she needs to be punched in the throat so she shuts up..hopefully injuring for life. I'd do it for free. dumb cunt.

[freedom78]

she needs to be punched in the throat so she shuts up..hopefully injuring for life. I'd do it for free. dumb cunt.

Nah, you're Canadian. She'd hold you as an unlawful enemy combatant in her secret ice prison.

[Bandita]

From Bill Maher's New Rules last night:

And before I go about demonstrating how, sadly, easy it is to prove the dumbness dragging down our country, let me just say that ignorance has life and death consequences. On the eve of the Iraq War, 69% of Americans thought Saddam Hussein was personally involved in 9/11. Four years later, 34% still did. Or take the health care debate we're presently having: members of Congress have recessed now so they can go home and "listen to their constituents." An urge they should resist because their constituents don't know anything. At a recent town-hall meeting in South Carolina, a man stood up and told his Congressman to "keep your government hands off my Medicare," which is kind of like driving cross country to protest highways.

http://therealbillmaher.blogspot.com/

[Gomer Pyle]

Her basic point is valid. People not drinking the kool aid over this worry that the bureaucracy could swallow us whole. The fear is a major obstacle to getting this done. Once this passes, there is no going back. I actually support universal health care in some form, but going to some clinic where there's a thousand dipshits twiddling their thumbs at their desks while there's mile long lines waiting for appointments does not sound like peaches and cream to me. In fact, it sounds like a nightmare. Think the DMV x 1,000,000.

I don't understand why they cant just add all the uninsured to medicaid.

she needs to be punched in the throat so she shuts up..hopefully injuring for life. I'd do it for free. dumb cunt.

Would a skull fucking that would render her unconscious suffice?

[freedom78]

Her basic point is valid. People not drinking the kool aid over this worry that the bureaucracy could swallow us whole. The fear is a major obstacle to getting this done. Once this passes, there is no going back. I actually support universal health care in some form, but going to some clinic where there's a thousand dipshits twiddling their thumbs at their desks while there's mile long lines waiting for appointments does not sound like peaches and cream to me. In fact, it sounds like a nightmare. Think the DMV x 1,000,000.

I don't understand why they cant just add all the uninsured to medicaid.

she needs to be punched in the throat so she shuts up..hopefully injuring for life. I'd do it for free. dumb cunt.

Would a skull fucking that would render her unconscious suffice?

Her basic point may be valid. Now, why can someone who was almost VP of the US not say it the same way you just did? I think a bureaucracy concern is fair to raise and we absolutely should discuss it. Just because I'm for universal care doesn't mean I want it to be executed in any haphazard manner, and I'm very curious about the actual implementaion. But how that translates into "death panel" is beyond my grasp.

Anyway, we have a nice new DMV in my town and it was a pleasant experience last time I went (well...as pleasant as getting new plates can be). The key is knowing which days to go. They're usually open Tuesday through Saturday. Go Wednesday or Thursday and you're golden. Go Saturday...well, what do you expect on the weekend?

Also, since we're on this topic, let's not pretend that insurance is a day at the beach. I go to the doctor and usually get one or two bills over two MONTHS before insurance pays (full disclosure...that was my old insurance..the new seems faster). I'm not sure what that is except bureaucracy. Government bureaucracy, corporate bureaucracy...they don't seem all that much different in some cases.

[Bandita]

I got a bill from the hospital 3 times and made 3 hellish calls before they finally figured out they transposed my ID number for my insurance. Point being, no matter who is running it, there will be issues. I am also very interested in seeing an actual plan. Not the gov't telling me they want to fix it. I want to know exactly HOW.

[Mr. Roboto]

Her basic point is valid. People not drinking the kool aid over this worry that the bureaucracy could swallow us whole. The fear is a major obstacle to getting this done. Once this passes, there is no going back. I actually support universal health care in some form, but going to some clinic where there's a thousand dipshits twiddling their thumbs at their desks while there's mile long lines waiting for appointments does not sound like peaches and cream to me. In fact, it sounds like a nightmare. Think the DMV x 1,000,000.

I don't understand why they cant just add all the uninsured to medicaid.

she needs to be punched in the throat so she shuts up..hopefully injuring for life. I'd do it for free. dumb cunt.

Would a skull fucking that would render her unconscious suffice?

My wife and I both have insurance, but she is also a Vet and gets great service at their VA hospital frequently. She had a surgery there months ago and it was great, we had no complaints. It was just like any other hospital, except we didn't get a bill for 10,000 dollars afterwards. In fact all her medical check ups and work are done at the VA. That is 100% socialized medicine run by the government.

[Mr. Roboto]

Also, since we're on this topic, let's not pretend that insurance is a day at the beach. I go to the doctor and usually get one or two bills over two MONTHS before insurance pays (full disclosure...that was my old insurance..the new seems faster). I'm not sure what that is except bureaucracy. Government bureaucracy, corporate bureaucracy...they don't seem all that much different in some cases.

That's my bitch....all the predictions of what may happen under "socialized" medicine is what we already deal with currently with HMOs. Make no bones about it, the only person standing between my doctor and I now is my insurance company. The long waits are because of insurance companies. The endless paperwork and bureaucracy are because of insurance companies.

[Mr. Roboto]

My irony meter has just blown up.....


GLADNEY THE UNINSURED ACTIVIST.... Over the last few days, a conservative activist in St. Louis named Kenneth Gladney seems to have become something of a cause celebre in far-right circles. Depending on which version of events you choose to believe, Gladney either initiated or was involved in a scuffle at a town-hall event late last week.

At least one prominent conservative blogger said Gladney was "brutally attacked" by SEIU members outside the event. After watching the video, there's ample reason for skepticism. Gladney was, in fact, pulled to the ground during the fracas, but he seemed to bounce back up quickly, and is seen walking around soon after without any obvious injuries. His attorney has argued that Gladney was beaten during the fight, but there's nothing in the clip to support that.

Gladney later went to the hospital, claiming to have sustained injuries to his "knee, back, elbow, shoulder and face."

Yesterday, about 200 conservative activists held a protest outside the SEIU office in St. Louis. Gladney was there -- bandaged and in a wheelchair -- as a featured guest. Some of the activists held signs that read, "Don't Tread on Kenny." Reader R.D. alerted me to this tidbit in the local news account of the protest:

Gladney did not address Saturday's crowd of about 200 people. His attorney, David Brown, however, read a prepared statement Gladney wrote. "A few nights ago there was an assault on my liberty, and on yours, too." Brown read. "This should never happen in this country."

Supporters cheered. Brown finished by telling the crowd that Gladney is accepting donations toward his medical expenses. Gladney told reporters he was recently laid off and has no health insurance. [emphasis added]

Wait, the conservative opponent of health care reform, fighting (literally) to defeat a plan that would bring coverage to those who lose their jobs, lost his coverage because he got laid off?

I'm not in a position to say whether Gladney sustained genuine injuries or whether he's exaggerating for 15 minutes of Fox News fame and a lucrative out-of-court settlement.

Either way, the new right-wing cause celebre needs to take up a collection to pay for his medical bills because he doesn't have health insurance. It's a fascinating sign of the times.

http://www.washingto...9_08/019423.php

[Mr. Roboto]

http://www.rand.org/...RAND_RB9100.pdf

Rand Corporation reports that the VA outperforms other US medical care systems

• VA patients received about two-thirds of the care recommended by national standards, compared with about half in the national sample.

• Among chronic care patients, VA patients received about 70 percent of recommended care, compared with about 60 percent in the national sample.

• For preventive care, the difference was greater: VA patients received about 65 percent of recommended care, while patients in the national sample received 20 percent less.

• VA patients received consistently better care across the board, including screening, diagnosis, treatment, and follow-up.

• Quality of care for acute conditions—a performance area the VA did not measure—was similar for the two populations.

• The greatest differences between the VA and the national sample were for indicators where the VA was actively measuring performance and for indicators related to those on which performance was measured.

[cousin it]

^^ I'm not sure of the numbers, but the VA has an atrocious med error record. Often the consequences of which, are fatal. I did find this:

"The Cancer unit at the VA Philadelphia hospital operated with virtually no outside scrutiny and botched 92 of 116 cancer treatments over a span of more than six years , and then concealed the errors."

http://www.georgiain...a_hospital.html