59 replies to this topic

[wedjat]

Didn't Bush pass No Child Left Behind, which was the greatest educational reform since the department of education was founded? Didn't Democrats scream and yell that it was unfair for the federal government to intrude on States' educational system?

Well now Flagg, can you tell me how the president encouraging children to do their best & to strive to succeed is intruding on any educational system?

I can't cause it doesn't. I strongly support any initiative that encourages students to learn. It's the means in how that initiative is implemented that I may disagree with.

Ok, could you perhaps elaborate? What is disagreeable?

[PERM BANNED]

Well now Flagg, can you tell me how the president encouraging children to do their best & to strive to succeed is intruding on any educational system?

I can't cause it doesn't. I strongly support any initiative that encourages students to learn. It's the means in how that initiative is implemented that I may disagree with.

Ok, could you perhaps elaborate? What is disagreeable?

I'm not going to disagree just to disagree. Give me an example of some educational reform, and I'll give you my opinion. Education isn't some area where I think Republicans or Democrats have it right and the other doesn't.

[wedjat]

Actually, I think they were "screaming and yelling" because Bush's No Child Left Behind was an unfunded mandate and because of that it's been a huge failure of a program.

That's what I was thinking. What I remember hearing about that program was that it was a big ole failure.

Last I heard there were significant increases in test scores and standing among America's students.



http://en.wikipedia....ild_Left_Behind



Seems it was pretty successful to me. Funding increased greatly after its passage and our reading and math scores increased. The only major critique of it is standarized testing, which is a whole other debate of its own.

Last I heard Obama replaced it with Race to the Top. As far as numbers, I heard some increases were due to numbers fudging, who knows.

[Timothy]

wikipedia ..lol

[wedjat]

I can't cause it doesn't. I strongly support any initiative that encourages students to learn. It's the means in how that initiative is implemented that I may disagree with.

Ok, could you perhaps elaborate? What is disagreeable?

I'm not going to disagree just to disagree. Give me an example of some educational reform, and I'll give you my opinion. Education isn't some area where I think Republicans or Democrats have it right and the other doesn't.

Are you deliberately being obtuse? I posted about Obama going into classrooms & talking about succeeding in school. You followed that up w/Bush, then I said something, then you said you disagreed with the methods taken. I then asked you what was disagreeable about the president going into classrooms to promote success in school, why can't you stick to what I was talking about? You were responding to that specific situation, do you not know how to elaborate on why you may think it's disagreeable?

[PERM BANNED]

wikipedia ..lol

Hahah it's funny, because there are no citations at the bottom of the page that links its claims. lol. I mean, no one else has ever used it on here. Hahah. It's like I'm writing my thesis for college, lmfao =) Rather than just provide a source to look at opinion both good and bad on it. OMG hahah.

[PERM BANNED]

Ok, could you perhaps elaborate? What is disagreeable?

I'm not going to disagree just to disagree. Give me an example of some educational reform, and I'll give you my opinion. Education isn't some area where I think Republicans or Democrats have it right and the other doesn't.

Are you deliberately being obtuse? I posted about Obama going into classrooms & talking about succeeding in school. You followed that up w/Bush, then I said something, then you said you disagreed with the methods taken. I then asked you what was disagreeable about the president going into classrooms to promote success in school, why can't you stick to what I was talking about? You were responding to that specific situation, do you not know how to elaborate on why you may think it's disagreeable?

Sorry for the confusion. I referenced NCLB as a counter to unjustified cries from an opposing side. You mentioned Obama because someone earlier said that any claims against Michelle were due to racism or general dislike. As I already said that I see nothing wrong with the President going into school's to inspire students to learn. I said I support any effort to increase student's desire to learn. I then further clarified that it is only in the means of a hypothetical reform issue that I may disagree. As the scenario you mentioned only involved the President encouraging students to learn, and I said I have no problem with that, I thought I answered your question. When you asked for something I disagree on, I didn't see a topic or scenario that offered anything disagreeable.

[PERM BANNED]

That's what I was thinking. What I remember hearing about that program was that it was a big ole failure.

Last I heard there were significant increases in test scores and standing among America's students.



http://en.wikipedia....ild_Left_Behind



Seems it was pretty successful to me. Funding increased greatly after its passage and our reading and math scores increased. The only major critique of it is standarized testing, which is a whole other debate of its own.

Not successful according to several teachers I know. They say teachers are now teaching how to pass the tests and that's not the same thing as teaching to get students to understand the process. Big difference.

How can you pass a math test without understanding how to do math problems? I guess if the teachers were teaching students to remember the correct multiple choice answer before the test, that would be a way to scam the system. But I don't think that's happening and if it is, that's more of a reflection on that teacher than the program. I think I understand your larger point though. And my question is, if the test represents material students should know at their grade level, then what is wrong with "teaching" towards the test. If I know that my students are going to be tested on biology, I'm going to teach them biology. If the test isn't representative of what children their age should know, that is a valid grievance. But we can change the test without scrapping the whole system.

[Timothy]

wikipedia ..lol

Hahah it's funny, because there are no citations at the bottom of the page that links its claims. lol. I mean, no one else has ever used it on here. Hahah. It's like I'm writing my thesis for college, lmfao =) Rather than just provide a source to look at opinion both good and bad on it. OMG hahah.

You got all that from a lol.. ?
It is funny that one lol seemed to get your panties in a bunch.

[Zimbochick]

How can you pass a math test without understanding how to do math problems? I guess if the teachers were teaching students to remember the correct multiple choice answer before the test, that would be a way to scam the system. But I don't think that's happening and if it is, that's more of a reflection on that teacher than the program. I think I understand your larger point though. And my question is, if the test represents material students should know at their grade level, then what is wrong with "teaching" towards the test. If I know that my students are going to be tested on biology, I'm going to teach them biology. If the test isn't representative of what children their age should know, that is a valid grievance. But we can change the test without scrapping the whole system.

Teaching to the tests means placing emphasis only on Math and Reading, as those are the 2 subjects tested. There is no assessment of any other subjects for the purposes of standardization. That means it is up to the school and/or teacher whether they try and incorporate other subjects into the curruculum, but for those schools focused solely on test scores, they don't have to. In theory this means a child may graduate from 5th grade with very little education in the way of science, geography, or any other subject apart from math and reading. That is the main reason many classify it as a failure as the goal of improved test scores is often not achieved by including the best educational practices.

[Timothy]

Last I heard there were significant increases in test scores and standing among America's students.



http://en.wikipedia....ild_Left_Behind



Seems it was pretty successful to me. Funding increased greatly after its passage and our reading and math scores increased. The only major critique of it is standarized testing, which is a whole other debate of its own.

Not successful according to several teachers I know. They say teachers are now teaching how to pass the tests and that's not the same thing as teaching to get students to understand the process. Big difference.

How can you pass a math test without understanding how to do math problems? I guess if the teachers were teaching students to remember the correct multiple choice answer before the test, that would be a way to scam the system. But I don't think that's happening and if it is, that's more of a reflection on that teacher than the program. I think I understand your larger point though. And my question is, if the test represents material students should know at their grade level, then what is wrong with "teaching" towards the test. If I know that my students are going to be tested on biology, I'm going to teach them biology. If the test isn't representative of what children their age should know, that is a valid grievance. But we can change the test without scrapping the whole system.

Well they could be great a guessing the answer. but doubtful.
Education should be about more then just two subjects and about more then just test scores.

[Mr. Roboto]

I'm sorry dude, but the right doesn't dislike her because she's black.

Then where does all this childish pettiness come from? Even with my immense hatred of W, I understood his wife was a good woman and I had nothing bad to say about her, much less talk shit like these nutjobs do.

[Zimbochick]

I'm sorry dude, but the right doesn't dislike her because she's black.

Then where does all this childish pettiness come from? Even with my immense hatred of W, I understood his wife was a good woman and I had nothing bad to say about her, much less talk shit like these nutjobs do.

And just how many cartoons have there been depicting her as some type of primate? If that doesn't have some serious racist understones, then....

[PERM BANNED]

Who is making them? I don't follow political cartoons, so I really don't know. I saw plenty of images of Bush looking like a chimp. Assuming that these cartoons are racially motivated, is making fun of anyone's race really different than attacking their intelligence? Can someone show me some cartoons that portray the Obama's this way from a legitimate right wing source? I'm not interested in some blogger or remote site. If you're going to claim the collective right is racist, you need something from an organization that is generally respected and representative of the right. Something like the national review comes to mind.