57 replies to this topic

[TAP]

http://www.factcheck...gets_obama.html

A National Rifle Association advertising campaign distorts Obama's position on gun control beyond recognition.

The NRA is circulating printed material and running TV ads making unsubstantiated claims that Obama plans to ban use of firearms for home defense, ban possession and manufacture of handguns, close 90 percent of gun shops and ban hunting ammunition.

http://news.bbc.co.u...cas/7983894.stm

Three police officers have been killed by a gunman in Pittsburgh - the second mass shooting in the US in 24 hours.

The officers were responding to an emergency call from the house of the gunman, named as Richard Poplawski, 23.

Police said he was waiting, armed with rifles and a bulletproof vest. He shot two officers as they entered the house, and a third who tried to help them.

He then traded gunfire with police for four hours before being injured and giving himself up.

His friends said he had recently lost his job, and was worried that US President Barack Obama was about to ban guns.

The shooting comes a day after a gunman killed 13 people in New York state.

[cousin it]

I am a firm believer in the right to keep and bear arms, and I strongly resent any attempt by the Federal government to abrogate my constitutional rights. There is a reason that the Founding Fathers included those rights.

I don't don't want the government to take ANY of my rights.

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety- Frankin 1775

[TAP]

^^^ ok, but I don't see the relevance.

[Timothy]

Guns Don't kill people ...... stupid fuckers with guns kill people.

[freedom78]

They might have to make this one over a bit.

[cousin it]

^^^ ok, but I don't see the relevance.

Fair enough.

http://www.factcheck...gets_obama.html

A National Rifle Association advertising campaign distorts Obama's position on gun control beyond recognition.

The NRA is circulating printed material and running TV ads making unsubstantiated claims that Obama plans to ban use of firearms for home defense, ban possession and manufacture of handguns, close 90 percent of gun shops and ban hunting ammunition.

Did you read that link? It looks to me as if the NRA was pretty much spot on in their characterizations, and that Fact Check is the one playing loose with semantics.

For instance... It states that in any Illinois municipality where a gun ban is in effect, it shall be an "affirmative defense" if the person accused of violating the ban can show that the weapon was used "in an act of self-defense or defense of another ... when on his or her land or in his or her abode or fixed place of business."

Obama voted against the bill. If this bill had not of passed, local municipalities could have prosecuted someone for using a handgun to defend their life, or the life of a loved one.

Then, there was this correction that Fact Check added:

Clarification, Sept. 29: We originally misstated the NRA’s argument. The group rests its case on the amendment’s language regarding handgun ammunition, not rifle ammunition. The NRA argument goes this way: The Kennedy amendment would have covered ammunition that “may” be used in a handgun and is “capable” of piercing police body armor. A few uncommon handguns can accept rifle rounds, such as the Weatherby Mark V CFP or the Thompson Contender.

Shit, that is the height of arrogance. It is tantamount to writing "well, technically, they were right, but really, we are right".


..., ect.

I suggest that you go back and re-read the piece with an open mind. You might find that the NRA's characterizations of Obama weren't that far off.

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[PERM BANNED]

^ Holy Shit, a fellow gun nut and someone willing to look at the issue with facts and objectivity. Pleased to meet you brother.

[Mr. Roboto]

The result of the fringe right wing paranoia machine. How ironic.

[cousin it]

^

Holy Shit, a fellow gun nut and someone willing to look at the issue with facts and objectivity. Pleased to meet you brother.

Actually, I don't own any guns, but I don't think that anyone should fuck with the Constitution.

[TAP]

I suggest that you go back and re-read the piece with an open mind. You might find that the NRA's characterizations of Obama weren't that far off.

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I think you're on crack. Neither Obama or Democrats in general want to ban guns, that boat sailed years ago. Splitting semantic hairs on old bills doesn't change the fact that the NRA and other right wing groups are spreading memes that Obama will take your guns away and other such nonsense - you think the guy who gunned down those cops was all upset about local municipality bills several states away? $1,000,000 says Obama does not push for the second amendment to be repealed while on office.

[PERM BANNED]

Tap, Tap, Tap. Once again you have shown your inability to form a grounded argument. Some wackjob murders police, and rather than blame him, you blame the NRA for their effort to bring attention to Obama's anti-gun voting record. If you fail to see an issue with this line of thought, well, not much I can say. Obama is anti-gun, and plays on semantics to ignorant masses. Much like he has done with his "withdraw" in Iraq. You think we'll be out of Iraq in a year, I know that 50,000 Soldiers are going to be left behind to "train" the Iraqis. But because Obama says all "combat" troops will lbe out of Iraq, you and the rest of the "hear what we want to hear brigade" cheer that the war will be over. Obama says he "supports common sense" gun legislation. Based on his voting record, his common sense isn't very sensical, but is unfortunately all too common. "Assault" weapons as the media is reporting aren't owned by normal citizens and the "Assault"weapons ban doesn't do shit for banning "Assault" weapons. Assault weapons are military grade weapons capable of firing more than one round with a single trigger squeeze. The United States has regulated all "Assault" weapons since the 1930s and no assault weapon has been allowed for import since 1986. These real "assault" weapons are defined as Class 3 weapons and require an extensive background check and a 200$ tax stamp. An owner of a class 3 weapon relinquishes his/her 4th Amendment rights as the ATF has the authority to inspect said weapon as any time. The owner must notify local law enforcement anytime he/she moves the weapon to the firing range. There has been only one incident of a lawfully owned Class 3 weapon being used in a crime, and the offender was an off duty police officer. The weapons you and other commonly refer to as "assault" weapons are nothing more than look-alikes of standard military weaponry. They lack the ability to shoot more than one round per trigger squeeze. They may look cosmetically similar, but are mechanically different. Politicians aiming to score points and take advantage of fear (you're supposed to be against fear mongering aren't you) portray specific firearms as more dangerous than others despite the lacks of statistics to back up said claims. Normally I would dismiss the gun grabbers attempts at slowly removing firearms from society, but the recent Supreme Court ruling upholding the 2nd Amendment as an individual right and validating that handguns are indeed also protected, worried me. It did so because it was decided by a 5-4 majority. No Constitutional scholar can argue that the 2nd Amendment was anything other than an individual right granted to each citizen as protection from a tyrannical government. Read any paper from the founders or State Constitutions from that era. As Obama will more than likely replace 1-2 justices, I worry that a later court case could be equally politicized with disregard for the constitution and our 2nd most important freedom (trumped only by the free speech) will slowly be taken away. And before you call myself or anyone else alarmists, every major gun law has been a result of emotional outcry following a tragedy. Britain and Australia banned private possession over single incidents. The 1968 gun law followed Kennedy's Assasination. 1986's after Reagan. The original 1934(?) followed a publicized trial of Thompson Machine guns of the Prohibition era (though they were rarely, rarely used) and a moron parading around sawed off shotguns. Read some books, look at crime statistics and really understand the issue before you goto an Obama favored website claiming intellectual and moral victory.

[TAP]

What a good little republibot you are, do they hand out that speech for you to cut and paste? Well done on 'refuting' arguments that I didn't make here, anywhere on the entire interwebs or even in real life - it's like a whole army of strawmen invaded. I'm not anti-gun or anti-2nd amendment, but I am anti-stupid, anti-ignorant and anti-fearmongering. I don't literally blame the NRA for those murders dumbass. But there are influential commentators and rightist activists out there - Glenn Beck for example, LaPierre for another, Michelle Bachman for a third creating an environment for such acts by misrepresentation, outright lies and calls for revolution.....motivated not by ideology but because their side doesn't hold power.

[PERM BANNED]

Do you even know the definitions of some of those fallacies you accused me of? Everything in my article refers to this single case, based on your own comments and the AP articles covering this issue. And you still blame others for the actions of one man. Everything LaPierre said was true, and you've already been shown by Cousin It that your factually incorrect link to factcheck.org doesn't hold water. I don't watch Glen Beck and Bachman doesn't ring a bell. Ironic that you place blame on the people who are reporting on a realistic concern created by Obama rather than blaming the source. I would argue that either approach is faulty, but using your logic, Obama should be the one you're blaming. The 2nd Amendment is "my issue". So all comments are all mine, thanks though. Not everyone needs someone else to do their thinking for them.

[PERM BANNED]

As you said I am a "dumbass" but when someone posts something and then links sources to support their argument, I tend to believe what they write is what they meant. I'll be blunt, if you want to compare intellect and education, you're more than likely going to be found wanting. So let's save either of us grief and keep personal insults out of this.

[PERM BANNED]

One more note, it hasn't been confirmed why he murdered these cops. His friends said he was concerned about a gun ban, but the context of why they said this is unknown. I don't see how opposing a hypothetical gun ban would lead someone to murder three cops. Based on what is reported in the AP article, this guy seems like a loser with behavioral problems. He got kicked out of Boot in the Marines, and got into fights with his neighbors. Doesn't seem like a stable guy to me. The fact that everyone is jumping on to the Obama gun ban thing shows how sensationalist our media has become. Luckily this bastard is still alive and will get what is coming to him. PA has the death penalty, so I expect a nice, long needle in his future.