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Man allegedly murders three men in a city


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#16 TAP

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 09:16 AM

Do you even know the definitions of some of those fallacies you accused me of?


This is a strawman for example:

"The weapons you and other commonly refer to as "assault" weapons are nothing more than look-alikes of standard military weaponry.......".

Not only do I not say such things, it's a point which is irrelevant to the argument which is that the NRA misrepresented Obama's gun position to the point that some people believe all guns will be banned. From the NRA's flyer at that link - no context, no in depth discussions of municipal bills. Obama will....

1. Ban the use of firearms for self-defense.
3. Ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns.

Perhaps the NRA believed the entire audience for that message will parse the actual meaning, context and background correctly.

Poplawski feared "the Obama gun ban that's on the way" and "didn't like our rights being infringed upon," said Edward Perkovic, his best friend.


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#17 PERM BANNED

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:24 AM

Assault weapons are an item that Obama has indicated he (and many of his staff) oppose. It has been brought up by Democrats again and is a major point of concern for the NRA. Apparently you don't understand that banning types of weapons is of concern to those who fear that their weapons may be taken. As I said, my response wasn't solely to you, but this thread and topic in general, specifically the AP article about this incident. Obama's voting record and responses warrant the two items you posted above. I suggest you do further research than to simply dismiss them. Furthermore, no one has yet shown that Obama or gun bans had anything to do with this tragedy. It is an assumption made by you when you started this thread. So, as you began the association of the NRA/gun ban with this tragedy, all information related to said hypothetical gun ban are relevant.
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#18 cousin it

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:42 AM



I suggest that you go back and re-read the piece with an open mind. You might find that the NRA's characterizations of Obama weren't that far off.

...


I think you're on crack. Neither Obama or Democrats in general want to ban guns, that boat sailed years ago. Splitting semantic hairs on old bills doesn't change the fact that the NRA and other right wing groups are spreading memes that Obama will take your guns away and other such nonsense - you think the guy who gunned down those cops was all upset about local municipality bills several states away? $1,000,000 says Obama does not push for the second amendment to be repealed while on office.


Come now, ad hominem attacks are born of desperation, and generally signify that one has forfeited the argument by default.

What a good little republibot you are, do they hand out that speech for you to cut and paste? Well done on 'refuting' arguments that I didn't make here, anywhere on the entire interwebs or even in real life - it's like a whole army of strawmen invaded. I'm not anti-gun or anti-2nd amendment, but I am anti-stupid, anti-ignorant and anti-fearmongering. I don't literally blame the NRA for those murders dumbass. But there are influential commentators and rightist activists out there - Glenn Beck for example, LaPierre for another, Michelle Bachman for a third creating an environment for such acts by misrepresentation, outright lies and calls for revolution.....motivated not by ideology but because their side doesn't hold power.


The arguments of the Pro-gun folks haven't changed much in 20 years. You write... but I am ... anti-fearmongering, but fear mongering is evident in the title of this thread, and the link that you provided... "fear the evil NRA".

I am aware that the NRA uses exaggerated rhetoric to feed the appetites of their members, but what quasi-political organization doesn't?

#19 freedom78

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 12:32 PM

When green nuts conduct violent acts, we call them eco-terrorists. Don't see why we can't call this guy a radical pro-gun terrorist.
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#20 Mr. Roboto

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 12:36 PM


The arguments of the Pro-gun folks haven't changed much in 20 years. You write... but I am ... anti-fearmongering, but fear mongering is evident in the title of this thread, and the link that you provided... "fear the evil NRA".


I felt the title was more dry sarcasm than anything else, but that's just me.
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#21 TAP

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 12:37 PM



The arguments of the Pro-gun folks haven't changed much in 20 years. You write... but I am ... anti-fearmongering, but fear mongering is evident in the title of this thread, and the link that you provided... "fear the evil NRA".


I felt the title was more dry sarcasm than anything else, but that's just me.


With a little parody thrown in.
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#22 TAP

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 12:44 PM


Obama's voting record and responses warrant the two items you posted above. I suggest you do further research than to simply dismiss them.


I'm not dismissing them, I'm questioning the presentation not the content - the part of the article I quoted was taken directly from the NRA flyer, I wish I'd just posted the flyer in retrospect. Anyway, a high information voter like yourself would likely know the details or at least look them up, I don't think it was directed at high information voters.

Furthermore, no one has yet shown that Obama or gun bans had anything to do with this tragedy. It is an assumption made by you when you started this thread.


I couldn't find a single mother angle.
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#23 TAP

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 12:47 PM

When green nuts conduct violent acts, we call them eco-terrorists. Don't see why we can't call this guy a radical pro-gun terrorist.


Because collective social responsibility only counts when it's liberals, single mothers, gays, immigrants, or atheists. This guy was a lone nut who is solely responsible for his own actions.
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#24 TAP

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 12:49 PM


Come now, ad hominem attacks are born of desperation, and generally signify that one has forfeited the argument by default.


You're right, I should have said it differently.
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#25 TAP

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 12:59 PM

Yes, it's a far left blog but here's some info about the shooter in Pittsburgh

http://crooksandliar...hard-poplawski-

Another:

http://www.truecrime...ccused_pitt.php
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#26 Mr. Roboto

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 01:05 PM

Looks like a charmer.
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#27 PERM BANNED

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 01:41 PM

PITTSBURGH – A 911 call that brought two city police officers to a home where they were ambushed, and where a third was later killed during a four-hour siege, was precipitated by a fight between the gunman and his mother over a dog urinating in the house.

The Saturday morning argument between Margaret and Richard Poplawski escalated to the point that she threatened to kick him out and called police to do it, according to a 12-page criminal complaint and affidavit filed late Saturday that contains her account.

When officers Paul Sciullo III and Stephen Mayhle arrived, Margaret Poplawski opened the door and told them to come in and take her 23-year-old son, apparently unaware that he had grabbed a long rifle and was standing behind her, according to the court papers. She told investigators she heard gunshots, spun around and ran to the basement, shouting, "What the hell have you done?"

Autopsies show Sciullo, 37, died of wounds to the head and torso, while Mayhle, 29, was shot in the head.

A third officer, Eric Kelly, 41, was killed as he arrived to assist the first two officers. Kelly was in uniform but on his way home when he responded and was gunned down in the street.

Kelly's radio call for help summoned other officers, including a SWAT team. The ensuing standoff included a gun battle in which police say Richard Poplawski tried to kill at least nine other officers.

Poplawski is charged with three counts of criminal homicide and nine counts of attempted homicide — one each for the officers he allegedly fired at, including one who was shot in the hand as he tried to help Kelly.

Poplawski was also charged with possessing an instrument of crime: the bulletproof vest he wore during the gun battle with police. The criminal complaint doesn't say how Poplawski obtained the vest.

Police Chief Nate Harper Jr. has said the vest kept Poplawski from being more seriously wounded, but police have not specifically said how many shots were stopped by the vest.

A district judge arraigned Poplawski at UPMC Presbyerian Hospital, an arraignment court worker told The Associated Press on Sunday. Poplawski was being treated there for gunshot wounds to his legs and remains under guard. Police and hospital officials have not released his condition, though he is expected to survive.

It was not immediately clear if Poplawski has an attorney. A preliminary hearing, at which Poplawski could challenge the charges, wasn't immediately scheduled.

Poplawski is also charged with firing weapons into two occupied neighboring homes and with recklessly endangering four civilians with gunfire. None were wounded.

Police did not immediately say why Poplawski fired toward the neighboring homes, but some officers were seen going into nearby homes and perching on rooftops in an attempt to control the scene.

http://news.yahoo.co..._shooting/print
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#28 PERM BANNED

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 01:43 PM

Looks less and less like there was any real premeditation to this. Just some wacko going out with a bang. Probably came from a single mother home, eh TAP?
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#29 freedom78

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 01:49 PM

It's really just very sad for the families of those officers.
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#30 TAP

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 02:02 PM

Looks less and less like there was any real premeditation to this.


He was wearing a bulletproof vest, but I'm not sure what your point is anyway. Causation and premeditation aren't the same thing, that's why they are spelled differently.
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