128 replies to this topic

[Mr. Roboto]

Want.To.Click.On.That.So.Bad.Must.Not.

[freedom78]

Do not read this if you haven't watched it yet!

 

Your point is very valid and I had the same question. 

 

Spoiler

Let me ask an unrelated question with a parallel theme: how did Luke Skywalker, with minimal training, destroy the Death Star when he was being tailed by a master of the force and the best pilot in the galaxy?  Fuck, how did the US beat the USSR in hockey at the Lake Placid games?  I would argue that the events of Ep. IV weren't so egregious, but it's a similar story line.  Here's why it doesn't bother me TOO much:

 

First, I can only imagine that the arrogance of the dark side leads one to underestimate an opponent. 

 

Additionally, his conversations with "Supreme Leader" indicate that he's still in training, and he has at least two "force fits" when shit doesn't go his way, so he's certainly not the cool customer that Vader, or Christopher Lee's character, or Darth Maul seemed to be.  Kid can get flustered.

 

And while she's untrained in the force, I don't know that the lightsaber (which they've really made much cooler in this film) makes that relevant, so presumably her abilities with that staff of hers might come in handy. 

 

Still, I suppose a compromise had to be made between bitchin' FX and story.  But, I agree, and it would have been better if he had beaten her, was about to kill her, and then either Chewy shot at them or he was far enough away and the ground split open.

 

My larger review:

 

Spoiler

I really, really liked this movie.  Compared to that Phantom Menace turd, this one restored my faith in the franchise.  The actors were strong, the characters were very real, and the humor was well done and added a lot of levity to the film.  I also like that the two new "main" actors are relatively unknown.  I will absolutely own this film and may see it again in theaters if I get a chance.  The effects were well done and the CGI wasn't so much that you lost the humanity of the story.

 

But, it was not perfect.  Here are my criticisms, and keep in mind that these are the exceptions to an overwhelmingly positive experience, and that none of them ruin the larger film.

 

Criticism #1: There were parallels especially to the first trilogy...TOO MANY parallels.  Luke as a failed jedi trainer parallels Obi Wan.  Han getting killed parallels Obi Wan.  Weapon is essentially Death Star Mark 3.  Main bad guy is related to main good guys.  Et cetera.  I actually liked most of these parallels, but the cumulative effect of all of them was too much.

 

Criticism #2: So the new weapon is incredibly bad ass.  I love it.  Except one thing.  Once it sucks up a sun, shouldn't all the trees n' people on the planet die?  And since it sucked up one sun for its first attack, it must be able to move to a new sun...but that wasn't apparent in the film. 

 

Criticism #3: The Big Three.  Every major character from the original trilogy had a big dramatic reveal when they came on screen.  For Luke this makes sense, given the plot.  But Harrison Ford has been in 1000 movies since 1977, so that one felt silly (though it was the best done of the three).  And I kept wondering if Carrie Fisher has had work done.  She looks older (duh) but too smooth and more so than the last time I saw her in something (a couple years ago she did one of those Comedy Central Roasts).  Overall, the old characters were great, especially Han.  Harrison jumped right back into the role and he felt like Han.  Carrie didn't have the same feistiness that Leia had, back in episode IV, and a bit more would have helped her part of the story.

 

Criticism #4: Kylo Ren is a nice character.  He's bad, but conflicted.  He's powerful.  But they built him up too high to let him fall that far in one film.  Of course, to do otherwise would have been to create too much of a Vader parallel, but that's what he wants to be, isn't it?  Also, I find his fixation on Vader to be odd.  You're related to the four most famous people in the galaxy and you gravitate to the one who's bad?  Ok, I can accept that.  But you somehow disregard that Vader turned out good?  And you want him to be your evil inspiration, even though he famously rejected it?  C'mon.  On the other hand, had they used Kylo's mask voice for Bane in that last Batman movie, it would have been much improved.

 

Criticism #5: The Supreme Leader looks like Gollum.  I mean, not full on, but enough for me to immediately guess that Andy Serkis was in the role.

 

Criticism #5: All those parallels and no slave Leia costume?  WTF.

[Arminius]

Reading Randalls review I thought of something. Him, James and me are all conservatives, and freedom has been knee deep in liberalism for as long as I can remember. I wonder if those could be traits when it comes to how people respond to the movie, because TFA is certainly "progressive" on a lot of levels.

 

Spoiler

My review. It's a lazy, uninspired rehash. A cash grab. The film doesn't care about Star Wars mythology and history, only it's application in creating manipulative moments for profit. The music doesn't even suck, it's almost non existent. The actors are one of the few good parts about this production, but their lines and characters renders that effort moot. Nailing a bad character is still a bad character.

 

Though I am surprised you give this thumbs up freedom when I read your criticisms. Several of those would be deal breakers on their own for me. A weak villain in a SW movie? Just can't let that pass.

 

Edit: Sorry about that. Thought I was writing a spoiler free review, but broad strokes can of course be a spoiler too.

[Mr. Roboto]

 

 

I'll raise you (ummm no pun intended please and thank you) one princess. 

 

[PERM BANNED]

Don't get me wrong, I thought it was fantastic. It was a great film and I'll definitely be seeing it again. Some of my concerns in my original post have been removed after spending 2 hours last night reading and debating it on various forums. But I don't see what political position has to do with one's enjoyment of Star Wars.

[Arminius]

I'm not sure what it has to do with it either, just struck me. If it does I would imagine having to do with the mind set of wanting things preserved vs. venturing into the new, sometimes recklessly. This film definitely put me to the test in terms of what I'm used to seeing.

[freedom78]

Reading Randalls review I thought of something. Him, James and me are all conservatives, and freedom has been knee deep in liberalism for as long as I can remember. I wonder if those could be traits when it comes to how people respond to the movie, because TFA is certainly "progressive" on a lot of levels.

 

 

I don't see what political position has to do with one's enjoyment of Star Wars.

 

 

I'm not sure what it has to do with it either, just struck me. If it does I would imagine having to do with the mind set of wanting things preserved vs. venturing into the new, sometimes recklessly. This film definitely put me to the test in terms of what I'm used to seeing.

 

Well, in terms of politics having an effect, I am pretty conservative in my personal choices, just not my political views.  But I dont think it has much to do with it.  I don't not any serious conservative/liberal divide in something like this.  This is freedom vs. tyranny (and not in the sense that cons and libs accuse each other of being...REAL tyranny).  This is the same reason Jefferson and Adams could both sign the Declaration of Independence, and then end up as political rivals in different parties.  In other words, don't miss the larger ideological forest for the trees...conservatism and liberalism are close cousins, ideologically, both are rooted in the same basic assumptions of a largely free society and economy, which marks them as quite different from something more fully socialistic, fascist, communal, or authoritarian.

 

 

Spoiler

Though I am surprised you give this thumbs up freedom when I read your criticisms. Several of those would be deal breakers on their own for me. A weak villain in a SW movie? Just can't let that pass.

 

Spoiler

He isn't weak, he's conflicted and imperfect.  As forced as it felt watching Hayden Christensen suddenly throw away all morals in service to the dark side, I enjoyed the struggle here.  And with two more films, there's a chance for him to become stronger, darker, and more skilled.  The whole point of him killing Han was to sever his connection back to the light.  Granted, they have to execute, but every bad guy has to have a moment of weakness or the bad guys would win.

[Adolf Hitler]

Spoiler

 

Criticism #2: So the new weapon is incredibly bad ass.  I love it.  Except one thing.  Once it sucks up a sun, shouldn't all the trees n' people on the planet die?  And since it sucked up one sun for its first attack, it must be able to move to a new sun...but that wasn't apparent in the film. 

.

 

This film sounds like a shit sandwich but that bit is intriguing. Is the device similar to a theoretical Dyson Sphere?

[freedom78]

Spoiler

 

Criticism #2: So the new weapon is incredibly bad ass.  I love it.  Except one thing.  Once it sucks up a sun, shouldn't all the trees n' people on the planet die?  And since it sucked up one sun for its first attack, it must be able to move to a new sun...but that wasn't apparent in the film. 

.

 

This film sounds like a shit sandwich but that bit is intriguing. Is the device similar to a theoretical Dyson Sphere?

 

Not really, based on what little I saw in Star Trek TNG.

[artcinco]

#iThing #word

[artcinco]

OK. Finally got to see the film this morning while all the good folk were at Church. Did have a spoiler tweet sneak through even though I went practically dark online for the past few days.

Spoiler

I agree with some of the points you guys made as to some things that fell short here and there...

But come on, to pull this off without sucking spectacularly is a feat. Even Lucas stumbled a lot with his prequels can you imagine Lucas doing this film?

Yes, there are similarities to events, themes and plot to previous episodes, but to me that makes sense here. I give JJ lots of abuse for his STAR TREK reboot where he just drops stuff from the original TV show in every few minutes, but here it mostly works although he got real close to the edge of over doing it. This is a trilogy of trilogies. We follow a fucked up family as they lay waste to the galaxy and have to take themselves out to make things right.

I liked the way they dive in with the new cast and we don't see any of the oldsters until it is revealed that, oh, by the way, the MOTHER FUCKING MILLENNIUM FALCON HAS BEEN SITTING THERE ALL THE WHILE!

I am a fanboy, grew up on this stuff, dig Lucas original melding of Flash Gordon, family dynamics and mythology into inventing the thrill ride movie.

JJ had to bring in the new, make it interesting yet familiar and also move the old guard off stage. I loved Harrison's swan song here and was surprised Han and Chewy got so much of the story.

I like the modern touches, a new female Luke Skywalker. I think she has to be Luke's daughter. The stormtrooper who says f this and ends up a hero in the opposite side was a nice reminder of the origins of Han and Luke.

A couple things I would like to understand better is the politics, why are there three entities? I imagine we will see more in 8 & 9.

And the politics woven throughout the first six, especially in the problematic prequels have always for me been spot on.

I am rambling now but my 4.5 Takeis say overall well done to JJ and the Disney people. This is American mythology and needs to be done right and not just to suck money out of wallets.

#iThing #word

[Adolf Hitler]

Good review. I'll add it to the top of the mountain of " It didn't spectacularly suck like the prequels!" reviews. 

[artcinco]

Harrison Ford Paid 56 Times 'Star Wars' Co-Stars

[freedom78]

Harrison Ford Paid 56 Times 'Star Wars' Co-Stars

I wonder what 2015 Harrison made compared to adjusted 1977 dollars Harrison.  And anyone making the Ford v. Fisher gender gap comparison is a fool.  Harrison Ford has been a major draw for decades whereas Carrie Fisher has been doing smaller roles, cameos, etc. 

Spoiler

Additionally, Harrison had to make all his money from this film, in which he is clearly a bigger role, whereas Carrie can (presumably) cash in for two more.  Over the span of those films, I expect we'll see the newcomers' get a hefty raise as well.

[Mr. Roboto]

I'm going tomorrow for a manatee.