4463 replies to this topic

[Mr. Roboto]

Anybody watch the Veep debate? I took a tasty nap in the middle of it. 

[PERM BANNED]

I watched some.  Kaine came across as obnoxious, but I don't think the VP debates mean much.  I'm still going to vote for Clinton.

[Mr. Roboto]

I watched some.  Kaine came across as obnoxious, but I don't think the VP debates mean much.  I'm still going to vote for Clinton.

 

 

So tell us why you are going to vote for Clinton, I'd like to hear how you arrived at this. I will say that four people I know IRL, all of whom are Republicans will not be voting for Trump. 

 

I don't think the VP debate will move the needle much at all, especially in this election. 

[PERM BANNED]

I came out on Facebook today and it's created a shit storm with people commenting "you're dead to me" to "I'm going to drive to Pittsburgh and slap you in the face". Some think I'm pulling an elaborate prank. So I'll post two of my lengthy posts to explain.

Yes, I’m a lifelong Republican and I’m going to vote for Hillary Clinton. I know some of my Republican friends are going to be upset. They’re going to claim I betrayed them. That I’m a statist or that I’ve finally smoked myself stupid. It’s not because the GOP is out of touch (they are, but so is the DNC). I’ve never been a social conservative and my one hopeful takeaway from this election is that the moral majority will finally be put to rest within the GOP’s ranks. I don’t care who you sleep with, who or how you love, and I don’t care what invisible man in the sky you think is watching you. You’re free to live your life how you see fit, I just don’t think I should have to pay to cover your gambling losses. If you’re voting for Trump or Clinton, you lose all credibility when you try to dictate how others should behave behind closed doors.

I loathe Hillary Clinton. Not because of her beliefs (I can’t think of any issue she hasn’t held numerous views on during the past 20 years), but because she’s a dishonest, secretive and manipulative person. The exact same traits Trump possesses. The only difference is she’s the only one competent enough to manage the executive branch. It’s really that simple. Romney was mocked for calling Russia/Putin our greatest threat, but unless you’ve been living under a rock, you realize how true that is today. And the idea of Donald Trump sitting across from Vladimir Putin terrifies me. As much as I dislike Hillary, I have no doubt she can go toe to toe with Putin or any other world leader.

It looks like the GOP will hold the Senate, and quite frankly that’s much more important than who sits in the White House. Make no mistake, Clinton dislikes Obama. She wants to leave a legacy. What better way to accomplish that than by doing what Obama refused to do the past 8 years and work with Congressional Republicans to pass bi-partisan legislation. She may pay lip service to the Bernie crowd, but she’s going to govern from the same center she’s always come from and where her husband governed from in the 90s. Call it rationalization, but I think Clinton is more likely to work with the GOP than Trump is to not only work with his own alleged party, but the Democrats as well.

So that’s it. It’s not a sacrifice of values or beliefs. It’s choosing between sanity and insanity. It’s choosing between 3 day-old pizza or eating horse dung. You’re free to disagree and vote for whom you think is best qualified. But I implore my Trump friends to consider is it worth giving a big “fuck you” to Political Correctness at the expense of America’s reputation and standing abroad? I’m not willing to take that gamble with the man who led the Birther movement.

And...

John thinks I'm joking too. I'm not. For months I've been trying to justify a vote for Trump. I toyed with the idea of voting for him in the primary when it became obvious Kasich stood no chance, but ultimately supported Kasich in hopes of a split convention. I really hoped Cruz would keep Trump short on the delegate count and sanity would win at the convention.

When that didn't happen, I didn't want to be the asshole rocking the boat. We're up against Clinton, so I had to get in line to stop that. I couldn't justify Trump, but I assumed I'd figure it out before November. We were up against Clinton!

I even started to feel more confident in my unqualified support when Trump surged in September. I think it was horseshit for Trump to be attacked for responding to parents of a fallen Soldier for politicizing their son's death to assault Trump. Someone else's tragedy or sacrifice doesn't provide anyone protection from having their ideas or claims questioned or refuted. My passion for watching political correctness and false narratives be called out. I have very strong opinions on the narrative being pushed by #BLM, and some of what was brought out by Trump created a voice for those thoughts. I'd love to find someone that can provide an informed explanation for why this movement isn't based on misinformation.

But after the debates I remembered why I wasn't a fan of his from the start. He's the guy who led the Birther movement. I'm not interested in even breathing life back into it because it's so misinformed and based in hate that anyone who believes it to have a grain of accuracy to it is a fool in my eyes. He doesn't have a plan. He offers a feeling of security. He's not informed on major issues and lacks the understanding of how to implement his ideas into law.

I know that his offer to Kasich happened. He offered away his responsibilities so he could continue his brash and aloof like leadership. I don't believe he was ever serious about being elected. I believe it was a ploy from the start to increase his brand like a Kardashian. But he caught on with the masses and his ego wouldn't let him back out. If he loses this election, millions of more people are aware of the Trump brand. If he wins, he turns it over to Pence and what are hopefully competent cabinet members. Christie would be a great AG, but god forbid we get Palin as Secretary of State.

We have real relationships and agreements we need to maintain with other nations. Every diplomatic conversation doesn't have to be " Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall." The US doesn't need to compare dick sizes every time it talks to someone. Yes, the US is great. But that doesn't mean other countries don't have great things too. Get out of the country once in a while. It's a beautiful world out there. Trump will take every opportunity to make HIM look tough at the expense of what may be the best outcome for America. Clinton won't do that. As I said earlier, there probably isn't a world leader she hasn't had dinner with. That's why she gets my vote at the end of the day.

So please don't accuse me of giving no pause for rational, factual thought. If that's your conclusion after all I've written, you've failed to grasp what I've said.

[freedom78]

Wow.

[freedom78]

I feel similar to Flagg about Hillary Clinton.  I've been thinking a lot about why I don't like her, because I didn't want it to be some stereotypical, misogynistic thing about her voice or laugh or personality.  I'll admit it may be rooted in those things.  I grew up a Republican kid in a deep red county in red Indiana.  My childhood was Reagan and Bush I and when Bill got elected I thought it was the worst thing in the world (in my 8th grade mind).  I still think Bush I gets a raw deal.  He was a good President who was unlucky enough to govern during a recession and we expect far too much economic control from Presidents.  My ideals were also driven, at that time, by the social conservatism of the community around me.  I was more than happy to go along with the anti-gay opinions of the right.  Keep in mind, this was my junior high self, and to this day when I see someone take anti-gay positions, I'm reminded of the fact that I too had these beliefs...but that I RELEGATED THEM TO THE TRASH PILE IN JUNIOR FUCKING HIGH. 

 

Anyway, most (not all) of those socially conservative beliefs went away because they had no justification.  I couldn't justify having anti-gay beliefs.  Disliking someone just because they're different?  Again, that's a junior high mentality.  But I still never came around on Hillary Clinton.  I HATED the fact that she moved to New York, while still First Lady, and pretended to be a New Yorker to win a Senate seat.  It disgusts me.  If she went back to Arkansas or even moved to her roots in Illinois, I would have had much less of a problem.  Funny thing is, had she moved to Illinois, maybe Obama doesn't get a Senate seat, never runs for President, and she's finishing her second term right now!  Anyway, I saw an interview in which the New York press asked her "Mets or Yankees?", which I found an amusing "gotcha" type question.  She claimed to be a "Yankees girl".  Horseshit. 

 

But, from all reports she seems to have been a good Senator and it's not up to me who the people in New York elect, so that's all water under the bridge.  It just speaks to a power hungry character, in my opinion.  But, I suppose you have to be power hungry to run for President.  Lord knows I wouldn't do it.  I'd be like a liberal Trump, running my mouth, but with actual ideas.  So I can live with power hungry, but the whole New York move was just too much.  Anyway, I thought she was fine as Secretary of State and, knowing that she'd run, I believed years before it happened that I would vote for her. 

 

These days I'm bothered by the email thing.  While Republicans undoubtedly make too much of it, I'm still very bothered by it.  I work at a public university and I know that I can't even leave student info open on my computer, in a locked office, while I'm away for the weekend.  If someone broke into my office, I'd still be accountable for privacy violations.  Personally, I think that's pretty dumb, but it's a rule and I know it.  The idea of a Secretary of State not knowing that her correspondence shouldn't be kept on her own server, away from any cyber protections the government may be able to provide is at best idiotic.  But I think she's a very secretive person (note, I didn't say private...that's different) and that's not something to be admired in a democratic society.  If she wants to be secretive, join the NSA.  Transparency is the rule we should operate under, not secrecy.

 

I'm incredibly upset with the Democratic Party's obsession with the Clintons.  To me, Hillary Clinton is the Applebee's candidate.  I don't know anyone who actually likes either Hillary or Applebee's, but there must be enough of them out there to still make them successful.  I believe that same logic has been applied to Nickelback, over the years.  But I know lots of people who plan to hold their nose and vote Hillary.  If the Democrats lose to a buffoon like Trump, it'll be because they've been obsessed with a candidate who is disliked by the majority of the population. 

 

In this election I've considered a number of possibilities.  Living in a state that should go red without trouble, my vote can be a vote of conscience with no ramification.  Had the GOP nominated someone like Kasich, who seems to be a competent, straightforward person, I may have voted that way, not for policy but because I oppose the notion that to be President you have to be a Clinton or a Bush.  Even if I liked her and her positions 100%, I would have considered voting against her just for reasons of defeating the notion of oligarchy.

 

I considered voting for Trump, but as a husband and father of a daughter, I find his attitude toward women disgusting.  That and his complete lack of serious ideas make him unelectable in my mind.  I thought about voting third party.  But Gary Johnson has proven himself uninterested in political knowledge, while Jill Stein is so far to the left that her policies would make this country unrecognizable. 

 

So, I'm voting Hillary.  I think her policies will be sound and her leadership competent.  My criticisms of her are less important than those two things.  And, once she's President, the Democratic party can FINALLY start moving on from its Clinton obsession.  Obama burst onto the scene in a way that no one really expected, but wouldn't you like to know who the future of this party is OTHER than a Clinton?  I would.

 

 

And the idea of Donald Trump sitting across from Vladimir Putin terrifies me.

 

This whole election has brought the issue of nuclear weapons up in a way I never expected.  I have confidently lectured to my intro international relations class on nuclear deterrence and the fact that atomic weapons were only used once in war and that was when only one country had them.  The main criticisms of the nuclear deterrent argument are black market nukes in the hands of terrorists.  I never bought into what I see as the ridiculous notion that a state, like Iran, would create nukes and pass them off to a group like Hizbullah for actual use.  Once they're out of a state's hands, they no longer can control them (see the US support of the mujahideen vs. the USSR).  What never occurred to me is that we might elect someone who doesn't understand nukes and why they're horrific weapons meant only to deter attacks by others.  A President Trump isn't the irrational leader that critics of nuclear deterrence fear, he's a grossly uninformed leader making choices he doesn't understand.  And that's crazy scary.

 

I came out on Facebook today and it's created a shit storm with people commenting "you're dead to me" to "I'm going to drive to Pittsburgh and slap you in the face". Some think I'm pulling an elaborate prank. So I'll post two of my lengthy posts to explain.

 

In the tradition of Republicans coming out, it would have been better if your wide stance in the voting booth led to an official pulling back the curtain to see you penetrating the ballot box with your Hillary ballot, while wearing an "I'm with her" shirt.

 

I watched some.  Kaine came across as obnoxious, but I don't think the VP debates mean much.  I'm still going to vote for Clinton.

 

Yeah, Kaine wasn't great.  He's not very Presidential, but he can build that up I suppose. 

 

I posted the following on August 5:

 

"I'm looking at Pence and wondering if he's a supervillain.  If Trump loses, Pence has dramatically raised his own national profile.  And it would be really hard for Democrats to hold the White House for 16 straight years, so I wouldn't bet heavy on a two-term  President Hillary.  In 2020, Pence is automatically a top-tier candidate in what I expect may well be a Republican year.  All he has to do is smile, nod, and wait."

 

Now, after this debate, everyone in the media is saying the same thing.  Not to toot my own horn, but....TOOT TOOT!

[Mr. Roboto]

[Mr. Roboto]

Imperfect elections and flawed candidates often make for complicated and difficult choices for Christians. But sometimes historic moments arise when more is at stake than partisan politics--when the meaning and integrity of our faith hangs in the balance. This is one of those moments.

A significant mistake in American politics is the media’s continued identification of “evangelical” with mostly white, politically conservative, older men. We are not those evangelicals. The media’s narrow labels of our community perpetuate stereotypes, ignore our diversity, and fail to accurately represent views expressed by the full body of evangelical Christians.

 

We are Americans of African and European descent, Latino/a, Asian American, and Native American. We are women and men, as well as younger and older evangelical Christians. We come from a wide range of denominations, churches, and political orientations.

We believe in the unity of the body of Christ, but we acknowledge the diverse nature of a community whose faith is biblical and evangelical. And we are growing. Given the rich diversity within our unity, we call upon the political world to hear all our voices, and for the media to acknowledge that the evangelical community is quite diverse.

 

As evangelical Christians, we believe our hope and allegiance rests in the person of Jesus Christ, Savior of the world, and Lord of our lives. That is why no politician, party, movement, or nation can ever command our ultimate loyalty. As citizens both of the Kingdom of God and this world, we vote with humility, knowing that our favored candidates always fall short of biblical values. We recognize that despite our unity in Christ, we will inevitably disagree about which political stances come closest to the heart of God for our nation.

 

We believe that the centrality of Christ, the importance of both conversion and discipleship, the authority of the Scriptures, and the “good news” of the gospel, especially for the poor and vulnerable, should prevail over ideological politics, and that we must respond when evangelicalism becomes dangerously identified with one particular candidate whose statements, practice, personal morality, and ideology risk damaging our witness to the gospel before the watching world.

We believe that racism strikes at the heart of the gospel; we believe that racial justice and reconciliation is at the core of the message of Jesus.

 

We believe the candidacy of Donald J. Trump has given voice to a movement that affirms racist elements in white culture—both explicit and implicit. Regardless of his recent retraction, Mr. Trump has spread racist “birther” falsehoods for five years trying to delegitimize and humiliate our first African-American president, characterizing him as “the other” and not a real American citizen. He uses fear to demonize and degrade immigrants, foreigners, and people from different racial, ethnic, and religious backgrounds. He launched his presidential campaign by demonizing Mexicans, immigrants, and Muslims, and has repeatedly spoken against migrants and refugees coming to this country—those whom Jesus calls “the stranger” in Matthew 25, where he says that how we treat them is how we treat him. Trump has steadily refused to clearly and aggressively confront extremist voices and movements of white supremacy, some of whom now call him their “champion,” and has therefore helped to take the dangerous fringes of white nationalism in America to the mainstream of politics.

 

Mr. Trump has fueled white American nationalism with xenophobic appeals and religious intolerance at the expense of gospel values, democratic principles, and important international relationships. He mocks women and the sanctity of marriage vows, disregards facts and the accountability to truth, and worships wealth and shameful materialism, while taking our weakening culture of civility to nearly unprecedented levels with continuing personal attacks on others, including attacking a federal judge based purely on his Mexican heritage, mocking a disabled reporter, and humiliating a beauty pageant winner for her weight and Latina ethnicity—to give just a few examples.

 

Because we believe that racial bigotry has been a cornerstone of this campaign, it is a foundational matter of the gospel for us in this election, and not just another issue. This is not just a social problem, but a fundamental wrong. Racism is America's original sin. Its brazen use to win elections threatens to reverse real progress on racial equity and set America back.

 

Donald Trump's campaign is the most recent and extreme version of a history of racialized politics that has been pursued and about which white evangelicals, in particular, have been silent. The silence in previous times has set the environment for what we now see.

 

For this reason, we cannot ignore this bigotry, set it aside, just focus on other issues, or forget the things Mr. Trump has consistently said and done. No matter what other issues we also care about, we have to make it publicly clear that Mr. Trump’s racial and religious bigotry and treatment of women is morally unacceptable to us as evangelical Christians, as we attempt to model Jesus’ command to “love your neighbors as yourself.”

 

Whether we support Mr. Trump’s political opponent is not the question here. Hillary Clinton is both supported and distrusted by a variety of Christian voters. We, undersigned evangelicals, simply will not tolerate the racial, religious, and gender bigotry that Donald Trump has consistently and deliberately fueled, no matter how else we choose to vote or not to vote.

 

We see this election as a significant teachable moment for our churches and our nation to bring about long-needed repentance from our racial sin. Out of this belief we have written this declaration, inviting you to be part of what we have learned from one another and long to see in the churches and the world—a commitment to justice and the dignity of all human lives.

 

We invite you to stand with us, join in this declaration, and pass it along to your friends, congregants, pastors, students, and the diverse evangelical church.

 

https://www.change.o...ng-donald-trump

[Mr. Roboto]

Wikileaks Appears To Release Hillary Clinton’s Paid Speech Transcripts

[Mr. Roboto]

[Adolf Hitler]

[Adolf Hitler]

God help us all. That debate was a shit show that should only reside in the twilight zone.....yet its reality in 2016.

[Mr. Roboto]

[freedom78]

That debate was depressing.  I'm guessing it pushed a few more into the ISIS crowd.

[Adolf Hitler]

All that video does is remind me how great the 90s were.

 

 

Girl power!!!